X-Message-Number: 15147
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:31:08 -0500
From: david pizer <>
Subject: more urban or rural

Comments and replies to Urban or Rural posting replies from several
persons.  From Dave Pizer.  

First let me say that the zoning would NOT let cryonics storage take place
on the 34 acres we have near Mayer Arizona that we plan to use for a resort
and retirement center.  There is land that may be zoned for cryonics
storage within a few miles.  It is not certain what land (if any) is zoned
for cryonics storage (anywhere in the country) since that type of use will
not show up in any zoning handbook.  When we moved to Scottsdale Alcor we
researched the laws and got a letter of approval from officials (because
there were no zoning areas for "cryonics") before we made the move.

Here are comments and replies to several people with lots of "snips" from
the original messages.

>From: "S.J. Van Sickle" <>
>Hi, Dave!
>The most secure
>facilities in the world are large military bases.  They do not achieve the
>high level of security that they do by "hardening", that is, walls,
>fences, guard towers, bunkers, etc.  They do it by defense in
>depth...simply having a very large buffer zone around the point of

>This buffer zone is usually open land, with clear visibility, large enough
>that any vehicle or person/persons on foot can be spotted and intercepted
>well before they become a threat.  


I suppose there are new detection devices that can give plenty of warning
(day or night).  It still seems like the storage company would have to have
a bold policy if someone did enter the property?  

>From: "John de Rivaz" <>
>Given that both CI and Alcor have moved to substantial facilities now, the
>ides of periodically moving to avoid "dangers" may in itself produce
>dangers. What may prove to be safe now may not be in say 20 years, and so on
>for the next 20. If we are really writing about 200 years (which we could
>be) then moving every 20 years means 10 moves.


Sorry, I did not mean to give the impression that I thought there was some
security benefit in moving every so many years.  I think one location with
lots of security to last for centuries would make more sense.  Also, I
believe that the danger time is now and for about the next 50 years, after
that I think the danger time will be less for at least two reasons:  First;
The threat of missle attack will be over (we will either have solved our
world problems or blown the world up);  Second; in fifty years the novelty
of cryonics should be over and cryonics should be commonplace.

>From: "Pat Clancy" <>
>First, I think it will be more like thousands of years (at least), not

Really?  Most of the cryonics "experts" are predicting 50 to 100 years
before we can try to reanimate patients.  Even 200 years seems like a long
time  and long enough to me.  Do you have some special reason for thinking
it will take so long?

>And second, the safest place would be _space_. I'm not trying to be flippant,

I have heard that mentioned before.  For now, I don't see how any cryonics
organization has the technology to do this.  We have to make plans for
things that are within our capabilities right now.
>From: Driven FromThePack <>
>Subject: hillbilly cryonics
>So you wanna move Alcor storage out to your land in
>the Arizona mountains, Dave? Nice climate there...

Can't be on my land = has the wrong zoning.

More Important!  Even if zoning was ok, it would be a bad idea (based on
past experience) to have a place where patients can deanimate and get
frozen and stored all in one and the same facility.  I agree it would be
better for the patients to get a better suspension but the authorities
don't like it.  Just remember the Dora Kent incident (I remember it as I
sat in handcuffs for 6 hours wondering what the authorities were going to
do to us).  

The authorities are so silly that they think a cryonics storage
organization makes a lot of profit on a cryonics suspension.  So they
thought Alcor hastened Dora's suspension to get all that profit faster.
Many of them still don't have a clue as to how dedicated and frugal the
cryonics organizations are.   Many bureaucrats think the people that work
in the cryonics organizations are in it for the money!  I am not making
this up to get a laugh from all the employees of all the cryonics

Right now the land we have for the retirement community is about an hour
and a half drive from Alcor and in a different county.  

>But I think we should consider your idea; maybe we can
>figure a way to do it so that we can keep the lawyers
>from our money.

I don't get the reason why any automatic involvement of lawyers in a
cryonics facility move?

>Now you keep working on that cryonics hostel/resort
>idea out there in the AZ mtns; I'm counting on it.
>What do you figure to be the minimum buy-in?

There is no buy-in.  I am trying to complete this resort and retirement
community with my own money.  If it goes to completion, there will be a
rental fee (under market I hope) for people staying there.  Also, there
will be cryonics work for those who want to do it in promoting cryonics
world-wide (writing articles, doing talk shows, talking one on one with
prospects to cryonics, etc).

Dave Pizer

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