X-Message-Number: 15179
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: Lack of Communications 
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 11:41:01 -0000

> From: Charles Platt <>

> To a relative outsider, this list appears to be the product of a
> special-interest group that has long since passed its prime and is now in
> a moribund phase.

The problem, as I see it, is as follows.

Many areas of health and biotechnology are in a massive growth phase, with
weekly reports of major advances. Only recently a list of a few of these was
posted to cryonet, which included news of the possibility of a treatment for
Alzheimer's disease. The things that can be done with stem cells and
genomics must appear as magic to many people.

A lot of this growth has been fed by the stock market, where people who
support this work have been able to show substantial financial benefit for
this support. [Before anyone starts about the recent "crash" remember that
Jan99 to Jan00 showed a 30% rise and Jan00 to Jan01 shows a static, not
falling, level.  - there was just a hump in between. It is the buy and hold
section that is supporting the work more than traders, although traders do
have their place in creating an active market.]

Comparing this with cryonics, one observes the paucity of technology news
and reports, that Mr Platt has observed.

Support for cryonics has been funded out of operating profits and by, to put
it bluntly, begging, most of which has failed to reach a worthwhile target.
(There are one or two exceptions such as BioTime Inc. which has cryobiology
connections and its flotation supported Trans Time.) Most of cryonics'
funding appears to have come from bequests beyond the "minimum" by patients
in cryopreservation. Even then lawyers have managed to siphon a lot of this
off in litigation. Recently some cryonics organisations have made profits
from investment in technology, on the basis that in order for reanimations
to occur massive technological advances are required.

This is not really suggesting that floating a company specifically directed
at cryonics on the stockmarket would be worthwhile - I suspect that it has
been tried before and failed. What it is suggesting is a possible reason why
the situation that Mr Platt (and in fact all of us) desire has not
happened - a bubbling ferment of cryonic technology advance with upbeat news
presentations to the press every quarter. As far as I am aware only one or
two professionals are actually working on cryonics research, and any news I
get is often prefaced with "not for publication" and so on.

So the only alternative to the cryonet that exists is a virtually silent
mailing list.

Would this actually provide a better public impression? Remember what the
choices are

1. A near silent list, with a few short reports and possibly some "begging
for money" articles
2. people discussing identity, consciousness, space storage and so on.

*** there is no number three ***

Another problem is that when new people discover cryopreservation, they
immediately start bubbling over with ideas, such as space storage. Or they
have problems about overpopulation, where does the soul go, why will people
bother to revive us, is cryonics stealing the next generation's inheritance,
and so on. They need someone to answer their enthusiastic proposals or
worrisome questions.

A FAQ will not do, they want to communicate not just "receive" or read
passively.

If there is no Internet list, then this task could fall on those who would
otherwise be doing the work in which Mr Platt is interested. If they realise
that it is necessary to enter into endless communication with prospective
customers in this way, (or otherwise end up with no takers for their work
when it is finished) then they will be spending time that would otherwise be
spent on their practical work.

Also, it is no good expecting the "rank and file" membership to train as
cryobiologists or whatever - not many people have the right sort of minds to
be successful at this work. Those that can "apply themselves to anything
with enough self discipline" are unlikely to be inspired researchers. It is
also irresponsible to expect people to hand over huge chunks of money  -
cryopreservation *may* turn out to be a waste of effort. If that is the
case, then the movement has wasted what little life its adherents have. The
movement has to be seen to be acting responsibly over this issue, otherwise
it is no better than any other money grabbing cult.

People who have been involved for a long time know that no one has amassed a
personal fortune through cryonics, but appearances to outsiders who probably
reach a lasting judgement after considering it for only a few minutes are
what is important. In any case, the doubters could argue, what is the
difference to amassing a huge fortune to spend on endless holidays, if that
is what you like, to spending it "playing about" in a laboratory doing
ultimately useless research if that is what you enjoy. I know the research
doesn't seem useless to us, but it does to hostile doubters. Many people
would consider cryonics research as sensible as we consider researching into
whether stories published in "The Bible"  are literally true, or the Turin
Shroud is really what it is claimed to be, or whatever. A lot of people
think SETI is unlikely ever to produce a positive result, but it has far
greater financial and practical support than cryonics.

From all of the above I think that everyone in cryonics is extremely lucky
that it is got as far as it has, and we should be pleased to live in an age
where there are some people with not just the enthusiasm but the *ability*
to take things as far as they have gone. Sitting on the sidelines prodding
them to go faster is not productive and indeed could turn new people away.

To end on an upbeat note, I predict that in a decade or two there will
appear a new form of funding for research, from people who have amassed
personal fortunes from technology growth on the stockmarket big enough to
fund research, facility building or recruitment projects that they
personally consider worthwhile.

--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors'
report, an autobio and various other projects:
http://www.geocities.com/longevityrpt
http://www.autopsychoice.com - should you be able to chose autopsy?

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