X-Message-Number: 15228
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 05:26:45 +0000
From: Phil Rhoades <>
Subject: More and more people  . .

>Message #15216
>Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 13:16:14 -0800
>From: Lee Corbin <>
>Subject: The World's "Excess" People
>
>Mike Perry wrote
>
> >>But people, especially at this stage in history,
> >>should not feel guilty if their focus is not on
> >>making more people but doing what will benefit
> >>those that others have made.
>
>which Phil Rhodes endorsed.  I too agree with what Mike wrote;
>feeling guilty is in so many cases like this is pointless.

Phil Rhoades actually . .

>What the world really suffers from, I think, is an unequal
>distribution of capitalism.  Areas of the world such as Africa
>simply do not have in place the kinds of economic infrastructure
>that is needed.  There were just too many experiments in
>socialism, and also too few decades (or centuries) to properly
>develop the right kinds of markets.

This is too simplistic a world view (typical yankee) - capitalism is just a 
rough description of an economic system - it is NOT innately a good 
thing.  eg 200 years of capitalism have done enormous environmental damage 
to Australia (don't start me on that again) which have brought us to the 
point of unsustainability - tens of thousands of years of Aboriginal 
habitation didn't do this - if you like they had a more "socialist" system 
. . China had opium addiction forced on it for the sake of British 
capitalism, Cuba was just a large brothel for US capitalism - now at least 
these countries have more-or-less universal literacy and health programs. 
Make no mistake, capitalism has done some pretty terrible things in the 
last few hundred years . . Simply assuming that if everyone adopts the 
"American Way" that all problems will be solved is more than a little naive 
- the US with about 5% of the world's population consumes about 20% of the 
worlds resources - how does this scale up?

>The conclusion is even stronger:  even if people are only
>half-fed, you simply cannot deny the richness and meaningfulness
>of their lives.  If you don't believe me, please, please read
>Dominique LaPierre's "The City of Joy".  And so it follows that
>even if people had to be less materialistically well-off than
>the people who are reading this are, it's still far better for
>them to exist than not.

This is a strange argument - you are saying "lets have lots of poor people 
born because after they are born and you ask them if they prefer to be 
alive or dead and they say they would rather be alive, then that justifies 
having lots of people produced" - this makes about as much sense as asking 
all the people who haven't been born would they have preferred to have been 
born . .

>Of course, this has produced unpleasant sensations in some of
>you who are reading this. That's because you are comfortably
>seated in front of your computer terminals, with full stomachs,
>plenty of food in the refrigerator, abundant entertainment in
>your books, email, television, social activities and so on, and
>it really does pain you to realize the particulars of those
>who are less well off.  But isn't this a little self-centered?
>What happens if you go to Calcutta, or go to any small village
>in Africa that you look down on, and talk to the people?  You
>know very well what happens:  they don't think that their lives
>are meaningless or completely destitute.  And if they knew what
>you were thinking, that the world would be a better place
>without them, they would be utterly baffled at your lack of
>understanding.

Why does it have to be India or Africa? Most of the world's environmental 
problems are caused by first-world countries - so if you want to resort to 
these silly population arguments then I would say that the world would be a 
lot better off with 100 million fewer Americans than 100 million fewer 
Africans.

Just another political point - all these wars that have been going on in 
Africa for decades - where do you think they buy most of their weapons? why 
from those friendly capitalists in the west (who are quite frequently 
selling to both sides! - but that is just business - nothing to do with 
morality . .).

R&LL,

Phil.
-
Philip Rhoades

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Australia
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