X-Message-Number: 15234 From: Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:40:33 EST Subject: Plattitudes For the sake especially of newcomers, I suppose I should respond to Charles Platt's latest (stuff). Although I am not yet immortal, to prove I am already superhuman I'll resist the temptation to use the ample material to respond ad hominem and just stick to the specific points mentioned. First, he quotes me: > As previously noted, the current Alcor "vitrification" procedures seem to be > based on guesswork, there having been (to my knowledge) not a single > mammalian brain reported anywhere, formally or informally, as vitrified to > long term storage temperature and then rewarmed and studied. and then he accuses me of ignoring the partial and indirect evidence of efficacy published in CRYONICS and elsewhere. Ignore it? Far from it. Many times--as he acknowledges in part--I have referred readers to Alcor's and other publications, and THE IMMORTALIST has published related material, and our web site has links to Alcor's site (not reciprocated). But my stated purpose in the current series of vitrification pieces was to highlight weaknesses in the over-optimistic view, so naturally I did not give equal time to that view, and I need not apologize for that. (I did, however, gratuitously mention one possible advantage of vitrification that its main proponents have not stated, as far as I recall--that it might reduce chemical damage as well as ice crystal damage, if it could be brought to fulfillment.) Further, in at least one of my vitrification pieces, I did specifically mention the CRYONICS article by Fred Chamberlain, with a microphoto of a brain vitrified at - 80 C and then rewarmed. Again, my statements were completely accurate and did not ignore the evidence for the optimists. I also said that "guesswork" is not necessarily a criticism, since we are always compelled to base our decisions in part on best guesses. Then Platt refers to my "personal, unstated definition" of long term storage temperature. Wrong again. The preferred long term storage temperature of vitrified organs has been repeatedly stated by leading professionals as in the neighborhood of - 130 C or lower. We know that - 80 C is not cold enough, and results from - 80 C cannot be assumed to hold for lower temperatures. It was Fred's article in CRYONICS that might have been misleading to readers who didn't notice that the good looking microphoto was from - 80 C and not the lower temperatures required for cryonics. Platt then says I have belittled the work of certain scientists over the last two decades. Not true, unless it is "belittling" to point out facts that need attention. Then he says I once sent him a letter saying that simpler procedures might be safer than sophisticated procedures, since we cannot know whether we are hindering or helping future scientists who will try to recover the patients. Although I have made my share of mistakes in the past, I don't believe I said any such thing. Let's see the letter; I don't find it. The closest I can imagine I came to saying something like that could conceivably have been the observation that if nothing is added to the patient and nothing taken away, then in that sense there would have been the least disturbance. But we (CI) do not advocate straight freezing as first choice. Our own results and those of others show clear and large improvement histologically when certain cryoprotectants are used, glycerol specifically. Platt next complains that my mention of RF heating was a red herring. No. I did point out the claim or expectation that fast rewarming by circulation of inert fluids might substitute for RF heating. There could have been some slight confusion, since each of my pieces had a focus on a particular patent or paper. I could not revisit every single point in every one of my posts, without undue length and tedium. It remains true that not a single instance of rewaming of a mammalian brain from - 130 C or lower has ever been reported, formally or informally, to my knowledge, whether by RF or any other method. Next, Platt complains that I was misleading in reference to CI's trials of alkoxylated compounds. All I will bother to say here is that I don't believe he was really confused by the report on our web site. And I said specifically that our trial was NOT an imitation of those reported by 21CM, and involved freezing, not vitrification. Next, Platt complains about my mention of the 21CM employees who were the inventors on 21CM's vitrification patent. My mention of them was clearly complimentary, not derogatory. I did not know that Russell and Harris are no longer employed by 21CM; I am not in their circle of confidantes. Russell and Harris were 21CM employes at the time of the patent, I believe--not that this is relevant to anything in particular. As to any implied criticism of "one of the world's most respected cryobiologists" at 21CM, this is ridiculous. I didn't mention him at all, and his name was not on the patent. Then Platt suggests that CI plans to pirate patents. Malicious and absurd. Even if we had no ethics at all, our lawyers would never allow us to substitute the monstrous costs of litigation for the modest costs of licensing. I have said repeatedly that, when convinced by the evidence of efficacy, we will offer all available options to CI members at the best possible prices; and I have said repeatedly that this could be direct or indirect, through our own services or through subcontracting, possible subcontractors previously named being BioTransport and 21CM or one of its subsidiaries or affiliates. About a month ago I wrote again, formally, to 21CM and to BioTransport (care of Alcor) to ask about the prospective licensing and/or subcontracting situation. There has been no response from BioTransport or Alcor. But 21CM responded in a friendly and helpful way, and that door remains open for the future. And finally I suggest again to readers that they get their information about CI and its work and views directly from our web site--which also has links to Alcor and all the other cryonics organizations. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15234