X-Message-Number: 15253 From: Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:26:10 EST Subject: Platt Tit Tat Debate is a delicate psychological game, the object seldom being to change the mind of your X*#! opponent, but to make your points and to influence readers or auditors on the margin. Part of this involves the impressions developed of what you and your opponents are like as people, even though in theory this shouldn't matter in a question of science. In "scientific" debate or discussion the object supposedly is simply to clarify facts and theories, not to win or lose. So a couple of remarks are in order. I have said that I am already superhuman, because of my restraint in the face of Platt's provocations. Platt has said his personal insults represent only 20% of his actual feelings. (I'm not quite sure how to interpret this. Since he has already said or clearly implied that I am a fraud, liar, cheat, and thorough-going scoundrel, five times that bad would mean--what? A mass murderer or war criminal, maybe.) First, it shouldn't "really" matter much what Platt says or thinks. He is a lightweight. When he ventured into management of a cryonics organization--CryoCare--he drove it into the ground, or helped to do so. However, some people, and especially newcomers, are influenced by the last thing they hear or read, and by the vehemence of the advocacy--even though they can also be turned off by perceived unseemly squabbles. So, as time permits and inclination urges, I will engage him point by point and the readers will make their own judgments. Second, turning the other cheek is often both unnatural and counterproductive. So I will now give my (partial and charitable) assessment of Platt as a person. Platt's sins (among others) are mainly those of which he accuses me, including selective reporting, selective quotations, ignoring of relevant evidence, and generally unprincipled spin-doctoring and self serving. On a more subjective level, I think his ancestry is questionable, his personal hygiene dubious, and his enmity more precious than the friendship of angels. First and possibly most telling for some readers, yesterday I quoted one of Wakfer's posts, which included criticisms similar to mine of Alcor's vitrification claims. My point was that, even though Wakfer is not friendly to me or to CI, and has been close to INC and 21CM and Alcor, he nevertheless concurs that the current Alcor claims are exaggerated. In particular, he pointed out that elimination of ice has always been possible through alternative means such as chemical fixation, and so has vitrification, but that vitrification as a TOTAL solution has never been brought to fruition--up to and including today. Platt chose not to respond to this. Why not, P? Why is it erroneous to the point of villainy for me to say it, but Wakfer saying it deserves no comment? Second, Platt says that ramping glycerol was proven long ago by Darwin and Leaf to be superior to one-pass at maximum concentration--using the Darwin/Leaf versions of each. Well, his idol, Darwin, had some things right and some things wrong, and one of the things he had right was his oft-repeated admonition that every cryonics organization should rely on its own observations or verifications, and not on the reported findings of anyone else, including himself. We take that advice seriously. Our sheep-head work was repeated and evaluated at the Kharkov institute for cryobiology, the world's largest, by Dr. Yuri Pichugin and colleagues. For the last year Dr. Pichugin has been a valued member of the California research team involving INC and 21CM, among others. The Ukrainian work did not include a comparison of ramping vs. one-pass, but we have done several of those comparisons at CI in the last year, and these were evaluated through microscopy at an independent Canadian lab associated with a major Canadian university. These have been reported in part on our web site. Comparing one-pass at 75% glycerol with stepped concentrations of 10-20-40-75%, there was a possible marginal improvement with the latter, not statistically significant. Our research continues, on this and other questions. And to stop for now yet again with the reminder: I am not denigrating the researchers nor Alcor's efforts--only the overreaching by Alcor in the P.R. arena. Overblown claims will not help them, or anyone, in the long run. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15253