X-Message-Number: 15420 From: Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:30:49 EST Subject: Donaldson & "viability" I believe that Dr. Thomas Donaldson is a member of the Board of Directors of the INC (Institute for Neural Cryobiology), which is one of the organizations involved with the rat hippocampal slice cryopreservation project. He is also a self-taught scholar in neuroscience and to some degree at least in cryobiology. There appears to be disagreement about how to interpret the "viability" of rat brain slices vitrified and then warmed, washed out, cultured or incubated, and tested for viability by the potassium/sodium ratio criterion. This ratio was reported as 53%--deemed very good compared to previous efforts-and then later improved to 66%. What does this mean? One interpretation is that, in a sample containing many cells, the average K/Na ratio was 66% of normal, with the variance unknown or unreported. That is, it is unknown how many were dead or close to it by this criterion, and how many were normal or nearly so. The other interpretation is that every individual cell was functioning at 66% normal, or very close to it, by this criterion. This latter seems very unlikely just as a matter of general experience with populations in statistical studies. Variance is hardly ever close to zero. So that's the first question for Thomas. Which of these interpretations is right, or which is closer to being right? Next, the K/Na criterion is said to be a good one for gauging overall cell life or function-if the K/Na ratio is near 100%, then most or all cell functions are close to normal. Is this really correct? How is that known? Which other parameters of cell function (neuron function especially) have been proven highly positively correlated with the K/Na ratio? If Thomas knows anything about this, then that's another question, or series of questions. I remind readers that Suda in the Sixties got relatively good corticograms from glycerolized cat brains rewarmed after relatively short times at relatively high sub-zero temperatures. A couple of years ago Pichugin rewarmed frozen (not vitrified) glycerolized rabbit brain pieces from liquid nitrogen and obtained coordinated electrical activity in networks of neurons. This is surely an important marker of "viability" from the cryonics standpoint, and yet, as I understand it, the K/Na test would not have given good results. Any comments from Thomas would be welcome. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15420