X-Message-Number: 15556
From: "Brian Phillips" <>
References: <>
Subject: military triage
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 22:24:50 -0500

Good analogy George,
  But getting you to the helicopter is definitely a triage decison.
  Granted we need the bloody chopper..it's obvious we need the chopper,
 but that still leaves the question of how shall we keep Erny from bleeding
while we wait in the LZ.  We call the choper first though..then worry about
the bleeder....
  On another note...can some one on the list point me in the direction of a
medic alert type bracelet
that is keeped to bio-telemetry?  I had this neat conversation with some
dudes in Virginia this afternoon
about this...
  Does anyone happen to know where I can find a top ten list of schools with
a grad program in cryobiology?


From: "George Smith" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: Military Triage?
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 12:37:44 -0800

I would suggest that cryonics better parallels the use of medivac - loading
the hopefully recoverable bodies on board the helicopter to be ferried to
the future hospital where they can be hopefully healed.

I actually think that the concept of triage is not really appropriate here
as we are only bickering over how to best to "treat" (prepare) the bodies
before loading them on the cryonics "helicopter" OR which kind of cryonics
"helicopter" to use to ferry the bodies to that future hospital.

These cryonics choppers fly through TIME not space.  The hospital we fly to
is in the FUTURE, not Saigon.

My personal view has always been to first decide to get the bodies to that
future hospital PERIOD.  I personally suspect that when we get to that
future hospital the doctors there will shake their heads at the beliefs we
harbored here about what was important.  Hindsight is always 100%.

There is simply too much reliance on present day scientific assumptions in
my opinion.  These guesses should be viewed as just that - extrapolations
based on our current limited understanding and assumptions about the future.

Those who claim that this is "waiting for the future to save us" are exactly
right.  The PRESENT science is entirely incapable of saving anyone who dies
now (let us say dead for more than 6 hours to rule out the children who
drown in ice water and recover after about an hour).  So we cool our bodies
down to liquid nitrogen levels in the calculated hope that in the FUTURE
there WILL be ways to reverse all the damages.

All the rest is supposition in my opinion.

So if you are trying to understand what cryonics is all about - DON'T.  You
can read right here the clashing opinions of people who have spent years
doing so and obviously THEY don't agree!  If you wait for that degree of
agreement you may miss the chopper entirely!

(Some of these folks are so certain they are right they refuse to believe
that ANY of the choppers today CAN reach the future.  They believe they KNOW
what CAN'T work in the future.  Think about that!  Please don't base your
decision for cryonics on those claiming they possess a perfect knowledge of
the future.  I consider that like drinking KoolAid at a Jim Jones memorial
reunion - it may look good but what are the possible consequences if you're

First arrange to get your OWN body and the bodies of those you love signed
up for that helicopter ride to a hospital in the future.

Then, if you are so inclined argue yourself blue in the face about which
procedures may or may not be better for loading the bodies on board the

But if you don't sign up for cryonics medivac because of your beliefs, you
may be dead right or dead wrong but the important word to attract your
attention here should be "DEAD".

Choose life first.  Then argue.

It's cheaper.

George Smith
CI member
former US Army 10th Med Lab, Pathology, Landstuhl, Germany
in technical consultation with
Ruth Smith, RN (retired)
CI member
former US Army 2nd General Hospital, Landstuhl, Germany

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