X-Message-Number: 15561 From: "Jeff Grimes" <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #15549 - #15560 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:03:31 +0000 To George Smith: I didn't answer your question before because a) it seemed a rhetorical question and b) I thought the answer was self evident. But, maybe I jumped to the wrong conclusion. So here is my answer. Obviously I don't want to take a lot of trouble obtaining insurance coverage and signing up with an organization if its procedures seem not to make sense and are not based on real science. This is a value decision. You may feel it is worth paying the money for any tiny hope at all. But where do you draw the line? Would you buy a freezer and ask your wife to put you in it after death, because it offers a "tiny hope"? Or would you prefer to arrange for something a bit more plausible? I could use the money now to enjoy myself, if the chance of the cryonics procedures working is negligible. So far I am not sure whether it is negligible or not. I had was more convinced at the beginning, than I am now. In order to make a better informed decision, I asked some questions that seemed very obvious, such as, how do you preserve people, and why? I mean, what could be MORE obvious than that? Instead of short, simple answers, first I received various kinds of personal abuse (including from you) accusing me of ulterior motives and doubting that I had a serious interest. And now I am getting no information at all. So, there are three possibilities. 1. The people at CI honestly don't know the answers to questions such as, "Why don't you use Viaspan or something like it?" I find this hard to believe. They MUST know. 2. The people at CI claim they have no secrets and welcome questions--but this in fact is not true. They prefer not to tell anyone any details, and we are supposed to accept their judgment on faith. 3. The people at CI are in some way embarrassed by the answers to the questions, and do not want to make them public. If there are other possible explanations for the silent refusal to answer obvious questions, you tell me what they might be. But frankly, any of the three possibilities above is not likely to make me feel confident. George says: > Some chance is better than no chance. But unless there is some explanation of how the procedure is supposed to REALLY work, how do I know that there is any chance? Unlike you I am not convinced that nanotechnology will be able to undo just about any kind of damage. > CI people have been answering your questions in this forum for over two > weeks. But this is just the problem. They have NOT answered the key questions, and it took an incredible amount of trouble just to get the few answers that I did get. > I suspect that some of them do not believe that you are > authentically wanting answers as you continue to raise the goalpost in terms > of what you consider adequate detail in the answers already offered. I have not raised the goalpost! I am asking the SAME questions repeatedly, not more difficult questions. your motives are being called into > question. Never-satisfied, ongoing insincere questioning could be a tactic > from someone who doesn't want answers but wishes to damage the reputation of > cryonics and thereby dissuade others from joining for hidden reasons. This is paranoid nonsense. The questions are very simple and very factual. CI should be eager to answer, to verify the credibility of the organization. It's not as if I am asking inflammatory questions such as "Have any of your officers been guilty of a crime?" I am asking for basic details of procedures which are being applied to people who want to have their lives saved. > So MY question to you is if you are seriously asking these questions, why > have you not yet secured membership with SOME cryonics organization so that > whether the details you seek are acceptable or not intellectually, you will > have SOME CHANCE OF PERSONAL SURVIVAL? Oh, I see--first I have to take all the time and trouble and risk my money, and then I am allowed to ask questions? This is ridiculous! It's like not being allowed to ask any questions about the performance of a car until after you buy it! > If cryonics were highly expensive, you would have a possible reason for > delay. But it isn't. Most people can join up for about the same money they > would spend on a pizza once a month. Life insurance would cost me at least 1000 pounds per year, plus annual membership. This is not trivial. > You see, I suspect that this neverending demand for more and more detailed > answers is a smokescreen for the REAL agenda. Look, I have not cast aspersions on anyone's motives here, and I would appreciate it if you could rein in your paranoid fantasies and just take my text at face value. This constant doubting of my motives is uncalled for and irrelevant. Even if I DID have an ulterior motive, it would be irrelevant, because the questions I am asking are basic, and EVERY informed cryonics person, including you, ought to know the answers. Otherwise, you are proceeding blindly without any proper knowledge of what is going to happen to you. Jeff Grimes. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15561