X-Message-Number: 15561
From: "Jeff Grimes" <>
Subject: Re: CryoNet #15549 - #15560
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:03:31 +0000

To George Smith:

I didn't answer your question before because a) it seemed a rhetorical question 
and b) I thought the answer was self evident. But, maybe I jumped to the wrong 

So here is my answer. Obviously I don't want to take a lot of trouble obtaining 
insurance coverage and signing up with an organization if its procedures seem 
not to make sense and are not based on real science. This is a value decision. 
You may feel it is worth paying the money for any tiny hope at all. But where do
you draw the line? Would you buy a freezer and ask your wife to put you in it 
after death, because it offers a "tiny hope"? Or would you prefer to arrange for
something a bit more plausible?

I could use the money now to enjoy myself, if the chance of the cryonics 
procedures working is negligible. So far I am not sure whether it is negligible 
or not. I had was more convinced at the beginning, than I am now.

In order to make a better informed decision, I asked some questions that seemed 
very obvious, such as, how do you preserve people, and why? I mean, what could 
be MORE obvious than that? Instead of short, simple answers, first I received 
various kinds of personal abuse (including from you) accusing me of ulterior 
motives and doubting that I had a serious interest. And now I am getting no 
information at all.

So, there are three possibilities.

1. The people at CI honestly don't know the answers to questions such as, "Why 
don't you use Viaspan or something like it?" I find this hard to believe. They 
MUST know.

2. The people at CI claim they have no secrets and welcome questions--but this 
in fact is not true. They prefer not to tell anyone any details, and we are 
supposed to accept their judgment on faith.

3. The people at CI are in some way embarrassed by the answers to the questions,
and do not want to make them public.

If there are other possible explanations for the silent refusal to answer 
obvious questions, you tell me what they might be. But frankly, any of the three
possibilities above is not likely to make me feel confident.

George says:

> Some chance is better than no chance.

But unless there is some explanation of how the procedure is supposed to REALLY 
work, how do I know that there is any chance? Unlike you I am not convinced that
nanotechnology will be able to undo just about any kind of damage.

> CI people have been answering your questions in this forum for over two
> weeks.

But this is just the problem. They have NOT answered the key questions, and it 
took an incredible amount of trouble just to get the few answers that I did get.

> I suspect that some of them do not believe that you are
> authentically wanting answers as you continue to raise the goalpost in terms
> of what you consider adequate detail in the answers already offered.

I have not raised the goalpost! I am asking the SAME questions repeatedly, not 
more difficult questions.

your motives are being called into
> question.  Never-satisfied, ongoing insincere questioning could be a tactic
> from someone who doesn't want answers but wishes to damage the reputation of
> cryonics and thereby dissuade others from joining for hidden reasons.

This is paranoid nonsense. The questions are very simple and very factual. CI 
should be eager to answer, to verify the credibility of the organization. It's 
not as if I am asking inflammatory questions such as "Have any of your officers 
been guilty of a crime?" I am asking for basic details of procedures which are 
being applied to people who want to have their lives saved.

> So MY question to you is if you are seriously asking these questions, why
> have you not yet secured membership with SOME cryonics organization so that
> whether the details you seek are acceptable or not intellectually, you will

Oh, I see--first I have to take all the time and trouble and risk my money, and 
then I am allowed to ask questions? This is ridiculous! It's like not being 
allowed to ask any questions about the performance of a car until after you buy 

> If cryonics were highly expensive, you would have a possible reason for
> delay.  But it isn't.  Most people can join up for about the same money they
> would spend on a pizza once a month.

Life insurance would cost me at least 1000 pounds per year, plus annual 
membership. This is not trivial.

> You see,  I suspect that this neverending demand for more and more detailed
> answers is a smokescreen for the REAL agenda.  

Look, I have not cast aspersions on anyone's motives here, and I would 
appreciate it if you could rein in your paranoid fantasies and just take my text
at face value. This constant doubting of my motives is uncalled for and 
irrelevant. Even if I DID have an ulterior motive, it would be irrelevant, 
because the questions I am asking are basic, and EVERY informed cryonics person,
including you, ought to know the answers. Otherwise, you are proceeding blindly
without any proper knowledge of what is going to happen to you.

Jeff Grimes.

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