X-Message-Number: 15617 Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:35:26 -0500 From: Paul Antonik Wakfer <> Subject: Paul Wakfer's Question - Re: CryoNet #15614 References: <> > Message #15614 > From: > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:59:30 EST > Subject: John de Rivaz' question > > I think John de Rivaz recently asked how many of our patients had been > members for at least two weeks before death. No, it was I who asked that question: ------------------------------------------ Message #15573 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 07:27:30 -0500 From: Paul Antonik Wakfer <> Subject: Re: The Big Picture - #15568 References: <> > Message #15568 > From: "George Smith" <> > References: <> > Subject: The Big Picture > Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:56:51 -0800 [SNIP] > Anyone TODAY not signed up for cryonics who DIES will be cremated or buried. This is simply not true. Many people have been cryopreserved who only signed up very soon before death or even after death. Would Mr Smith or Mr Ettinger please tell us what percentage of CI patients were signed up more that two weeks before cryopreservation? For ACS and for CryoCare I know these statistics. It would also be interesting to know them for Alcor. > Cremated or buried. > > Period. > > It is simple. It is black and white. Not at all. There are many ways of dying. Many of them will allow signup when knowledge of impending death is certain. ---------------------------------------------- John de Rivaz only agreed that he too would like to know the answer. ---------------------------------------------- Message #15579 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Mr. Smith goes to CI - #15563 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:42:13 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- > Message #15572 > Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 04:39:44 -0500 > From: Paul Antonik Wakfer <> > Subject: Mr. Smith goes to CI - #15563 > References: <> [SNIP} > Would Mr Smith or Mr Ettinger please tell us what percentage of CI > patients were signed up more that two weeks before cryopreservation? > For ACS and for CryoCare I know these statistics. It would also be > interesting to know them for Alcor. I'd like to know that for all 4 organisations as well. If everyone is willing to make a return of the values, I can put a table in Longevity Report. --------------------------------------------- > > By my count, 26 of the 37. But I wish to thank Mr Ettinger for providing factual information which supports my argument contrary to Mr Smith's position. The above data means that under 30% of CI patients were signed up for more than two weeks before cryopreservation. Of the 2 CryoCare patients the number was 50% although even the one who was not a last minute case completed signup when he was clearly terminal within months of cryopreservation. > I really don't know what that tells us that wasn't already obvious, It tells us that not being signed up right now does not mean that one *has to* miss the boat. It tells us that many people know of cryonics but are not sufficiently convinced to signup ahead of time, or they understand that with current cryonics field methods, death in any circumstances except a terminal disease situation gives them a far lower chance of recovery success. > namely, > that people tend to procrastinate. And I don't know what we can do about it > that we aren't already doing. We will not be able to do anything about it, until suspended animation is near being achieved and this has been sufficiently demonstrated to the public and the medical establishment, that a well organized and widely available capability of patient cryopreservation is made available in response to massive customer demand. This is why I continue to promote the research to achieve perfected suspended animation. Only then will it make sense for me to be signed up so that I may be saved even if death comes suddenly. > In a way, it's encouraging that we get so many death-bed and post-mortem > inquiries. It shows that (relatively) a lot of people have it on their minds > in some degree. In a death-bed or post-mortem situation, most of those figure > it's too late, and we never hear from them, especially since the patient > him/herself can do little or nothing. But many of those who are knowledgeable, and really want to have the chance, *do* get signed up at the end. This is especially so if their next-of-kin are convinced cryonicists and/or care about their family member's wishes. -- Paul -- The Institute for Neural Cryobiology - http://neurocryo.org A California charitable corporation funding research to perfect cryopreservation of central nervous system tissue for neuroscience research & medical repair of the brain. Voice-mail: 416-968-6291 Fax: 559-663-5511 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15617