X-Message-Number: 15649 From: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:28:32 EST Subject: Lemler Yesterday I was a bit too easy on Jerry Lemler, Alcor's psychiatrist, who introduced himself, made some nice comments on objectives, expressed confidence that he and Alcor would use benefactors' money to good effect, and incidentally dismissed my criticism of Fred's announcement "Vitrification Arrives" by labeling it "political" and saying it should not be taken seriously as scientific criticism. I imagine readers will have noticed that his criticism of my criticism was essentially purely ad hominem, no attempt whatever at factual engagement, since "answering him point by point would largely be a misuse of our time." In other words, he used epithets and nothing more. I have at times--after protracted discussion--said something similar about Grimes and one or two others, with the shoe on the other foot. The difference is in the background and the details, and those differences are very large indeed. Again, the gist of my criticism of Fred's announcement is this: The evidence for Fred's degree of optimism is scattered and indirect. In particular, no animal brain has been treated by Alcor's current procedure, rewarmed from liquid nitrogen temperature, and evaluated--not by anyone, anywhere, ever. Not by Alcor and not by Alcor's consultants. Does that mean they made a bad decision, or they are acting in bad faith? Of course not. They are good people doing their best. They believe that experience and theory point to a probability that the current Alcor procedure--at least if applied under ideal conditions--will result in vitrification and much less damage overall than Alcor's prior procedure. But the fact remains that not only has there been no independent verification, but not even an initial finding by the Alcor consultants themselves, based on direct testing. Not a single microphoto, for example, after rewarming a mammalian brain from liquid nitrogen. And of course neither we nor anyone else can test their procedure, since essential elements of it are secret. If anyone thinks it is a quibble to want direct test results, rather than relying on opinions based on theory and on related but different experience, he just has not read much scientific literature, especially in the life sciences. It is commonplace for researchers to report conflicting results, even when there have been thousands of studies, e.g. on vitamin C. After a half century, there are still disagreements on the best way to cryopreserve some of the simplest systems, such as sperm or blood. And of course, in science, no amount of prestige or "expertise" is allowed to substitute for proof. Not even an Einstein or a Newton can persuade merely on the strength of his reputation, and the Alcor consultants are not yet quite in that category. (I hope they get there some day.) Once more, CI procedures will continue to be those that we have found best, among those we have tested, as evaluated by independent professionals. We have a large research agenda, and changes will be instituted as warranted. And another word about Lemler. Possibly he is more of a scientist than most psychiatrists; I don't know. But he seems peculiarly inept as a psychologist. Relations between CI and Alcor have had ups and downs over the years, but I still regard many Alcor members as friends, including Fred and Linda, despite recent frictions. After all, in the Congress even Republicans and Democrats can be friends. If Lemler's remarks were intended to be result-oriented, one can only wonder what results he had in mind. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15649