X-Message-Number: 15765 Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:20:37 -0600 From: "www.IGGY.net - KC Homes" <> Subject: cryonics - a doubtful proposition Jeff Grimes wrote: >Regardless of Mr. Ettinger's past achievements, this just >does not seem ethical to me, and since cryonics seems such >a doubtful proposition to start with, ethics are rather >important. Jeff: This statement makes a perfect sense to me if I take your side after having read your comments for several weeks. I can appreciate your standpoint. It looks to me that you maybe searching for the "golden middle" here. After an extensive research you've done on the Net, you are probably going to have an upper hand over anyone with a "general knowledge" of cryonics on the logistics of the procedure, e.g. like me. And that is fine, good for you! I commend you on that. Factual information is what you are after, then it's great. But first and foremost, you need to establish a set of guidelines for you, your life, and your philosophy. I welcome your questions about cryonics procedures and am sure that what you are after is "truth, the whole truth, so help you whatever :-)" If you are after facts, you got them all by now. Have you made any significant conclusions that are going to benefit you, your close ones and bring you closer to your goal in life? Questioning everything is fine, but eventually the question is pretty "black & white" - "Do you or do you not believe in cryonics?" - you can't be half pregnant, Jeff :-) If you don't, I respect your opinion, and wish you well in it hoping you'll gain enough in the future to change your mind. If you perceived some of the posts to the list as "shaking you off," "deceiving," "not precise..." etc., there may not be the right way for this - did you think about that? At least at this point with the limited knowledge that the science has about cryobiology. If even the smartest people in the world cannot figure this out, do you think you and I can? :-) Science works in mysterious ways, I hear. Alcor or CI - does it make any difference to you if you don't believe in it? I am not sure if your questioning has swayed anyone in their belief or disbelief in the principle. As a matter of fact, I adhere to the idea of people having their minds set up on ideas from the getgo and just modifying them gradually rather then changing them dramatically overnight or maybe over several weeks to several months while having a heated exchange of ideas, questions, propositions, etc. I hope that your are not taking a vigilante approach on this list, as it appears to me from multiple posts resulting from your original set of questions this what has been transpiring with you. "Discomfort makes you grow" - don't know who said that, but I hope you set up your priorities in life first. I am not even sure if you feel any discomfort after the numerous "e-shootings" taking place on this list. Be real honest, I don't feel I am entitled to know that about you - you and only you decide for yourself, you and only you are the God of your destiny, your future and your priorities in life. One of mine is, I'd like to see a human travel to stars... You can jump at this statement "Stars are hot, how can you travel to stars, you cannot walk on them, you'll burn, you cannot touch them, you'll get blinded, you don't have the technology to do so, etc..." OK, not stars proper, but rather other planets outside of the Solar System and the Milky Way. Maybe it'll be me in about XXX,XXX years? You see the point, Jeff? "How about the $99 bottle of that what you call chemical, how about that Canadian lab, how about this, how about that, how about the other?" Do you see the forest for the trees, Jeff? Or do you see the trees for the forest? Is your glass half empty or half full? But what if there are stars out there that we don't know of, can't detect that you can actually set you foot on? How do you know? Would you like to know? How will you know without going there? Of course, there will be billions of stars that will be hot, but there's bound to be one that is not. I maybe telling you complete rubbish here, Jeff, scientifically wise, and an astronomer can shatter my arguments to pieces very easily, but does it make any sense to you in general? Theoretically? And you know what? - If you think of it, it'll come. Let's face it. Everything you have now in your life has been dreamed of by Leonardo, Galileo, Jules Verne, Darwin, and the like. We are the product of previous generations' aspirations and lives. You have airplanes, computers, intercontinental travel, bless the Internet! You can even have cyber sex now :-) What else do you have that people thought about thousand of years ago? It's here, it's coming. The birth of progress is impossible to stop, it's ever evolving and no matter what you and I think of it, it'll happen... Think of it and it'll happen. It'll take years, decades, centuries, millennia, but it'll happen. I sense a little bit of impatience here, Jeff. But it appears that evolution is applicable to anything in the Universe. I am sure that Darwin's theories are fairly well known in the UK, Jeff :-) Do you know how long it took a little bug to turn into what they are now? An amazing variety of animal life! What do you expect of human knowledge and understanding of cryonics? Or just life extension in general? You cannot demand answers from life - they are granted to you. Luck favors prepared and what is it that you are preparing for is pretty important in my opinion. Will you travel to your star, Jeff? How are you going to get there? Just a thought to ponder... All the best my UK friend. I love your country, Nottingham being my favorite town. Having been born and raised in Russia, I find your train of thoughts a fascinating one... Sincerely, IGGY Dybal Broker Owner, IGGY Real Estate ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * E-mail: * Web site: http://www.IGGY.net * Phone: (913) 894-4024 * Toll-free: (877) 550-IGGY/ 550-4449 * Fax: (913) 894-4311 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15765