X-Message-Number: 15875 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:26:24 -0500 From: James Swayze <> Subject: [off topic] Singularity... Bah Humbug! References: <> CryoNet wrote: Message #15862 > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:06:04 +1100 > From: Damien Broderick <> > Subject: re: who will revive you? > > >(I leave out of account the radical "singularity" scenarios.) > > Aaargh! You can't, you can't! Well, you can--but you need to give a damned > impressive principled reason why the future *won't* go in the > Singularity/Spike direction, and go there pretty fast at that. My hunch is > that to get the technology required for revival from current rudimentary > forms of cryostasis, we'll need moderately advanced nanotech and very, very > good computation, probably at the AI or Super-AI level. Once those > desiderata are instantiated, we'll be heading almost vertically up the > Spike, and all bets are off, or moot. > > I'd like to see a rebuttal of this general case, if there is one. > > Damien > I don't buy the singularity, at least I'd rather not. I'll tell you why. One oft touted product of the singularity is super AI so powerful as to take on the role of a near god. I once was religious, luckily I kept an open mind and learned some science and grew out of it. It was a little traumatic. I now am fully atheist. And I didn't go through all that just to end up bowing down some goddamn god of our own making!! Machine AI!! Bah!! Bear with me before getting upset at me for being a luddite, I certainly am not. I'm all for AI, just not machine AI. I got this picture in my mind of these whacked out scientists somewhere someday about to flip the switch on the super AI they've created. There they stand nervously wondering with less than a fifty/fifty chance in our favor whether the damn thing will even like us!! Heaven or Hell, we'll know in a minute!! Step right up folks it's judgment day, paradise or oblivion...take a chance...flip the switch. I'm reminded of a quote from an old british sci-fi, "The last word uttered by mankind will be, What's this button do?". Does AI have to be machine? I don't think so. Why trust super intelligence to some inhuman machine. If not human they'll no doubt end up competing with us for resources and we'll lose. Superiority breeds contempt more often than altruism. Don't make machines smarter than us, it's colossal stupid!! Make us smarter instead. Use any means available and then some. Use artificial means, use natural means, use directed evolution and genetic manipulation. Put the AI inside each of us. If we can indeed someday link human neurons usefully to digital data devices then do so and then link us all together. Each of us a single processor in a 6+ billion strong and growing multiprocessing super computer. Think of how much more precious each and every life will become. Population problem? Abortion issues? Not anymore we'll damn sure find ways to feed and house everyone because they add to our strength. Not only that but these individual processors are unlike anything Intel or AMD or IBM could ever come up with, each one is unique and uniquely and diversely talented. I don't even think machine AI could achieve that. They'd eventually boil down to the single most efficient algorithm or whatever and duplicate that over and over and whatever hidden flaws it held...like "must kill all humans". We have hidden abilities that put computers to shame. Now one caveat. I can't stand it when someone usually some new ager says, "We only use ten percent of our brains". I always hand them a rhetorical scalpel and say, "Here cut out 90% and let's see how you do". However, as it turns out we do have amazing abilities we stopped using somewhere along the evolutionary path. They're known today as savant skills. Imagine that, calculating faster than any computer 9 digit prime numbers in a flash being a primitive talent of all human beings. Well it seems to be true and we are learning how to perhaps reawaken them and yet stay socially functioning. Here are some references to back up what I've just said about savantism. http://www.ssn.flinders.edu.au/psyc/research/autism/ "Savant syndrome: Identification of latent savant talents. A recent hypothesis that has received much attention is that savant type abilities "reside equally in all of us" (Snyder & Mitchell, 1999, p591). Snyder and Mitchell suggest that we all have access to this fundamental mechanism, perhaps even some privileged information, but because of higher order cognitive processing we are unable to access this or these mechanisms. Savants, on the other hand, are not concept driven and lack central coherence and are therefore able to access this information. It is anticipated that by interfering with normal functioning in the anterior temporal lobe of normal participants through trans-cranial magnetic stimulation we will see significant improvement in the talents that mediate all savant activities (e.g., pitch, perspective, memory). Disruption to cortical functioning can be achieved through artificial means involving electrical stimulation of the cortex. This is known as Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS). TMS is a modern technique, which allows safe, non-invasive and painless stimulation of the brain. This technique allows the study of the contribution of a given cortical region to a specific behaviour (Pascual-Leone, et al, 1998; Pascual-Leone et al., 1999). Mechanisms identified through previous research and thought to underpin savant skills will be measured during this interference. This project is being run in conjunction with the physiology department at the University of Adelaide." (Note: In another article I can't find just now this study had been done and did show positive results) Further information for those interested. http://www.wismed.org/foundation/Savant2000.html Title: Savant Syndrome: 2000 and Beyond Where we've been/Where we're headed (note: This paper differs from Dr. Young's research by saying that social skills training doesn't diminish the savant skills, however, I saw Dr. Young on a program interviewing one of the twins mentioned and he showed that they had diminished as he concentrated on being more socially adept.) Interesting what these papers say about astonishing memory, math, art, perspective, spatial abilities and polyglot language skills. Seems we have quite good ingredients for making a super computer, fast processors and lots of them and real good memory modules. But if we can link to the digital then there may just be unimaginable memory power for this human computer through some artificial augmentation. It may be possible to store all the information in the universe on a single electron's path. Please see the following: Quantum laser turns electron wave into (computer) memory http://www.eet.com/story/technology/OEG20000831S0019 By R. Colin Johnson EE Times (08/31/00, 2:39 p.m. EST) ANN ARBOR, Mich. How many electrons does it take to remember the entire contents of the Library of Congress? Only one, according to University of Michigan professor Philip Bucksbaum. Since electrons, like all elementary particles, are actually waves, Bucksbaum has found a way to phase-encode any number of ones and zeros along a single electron's continuously oscillating waveform. (Note: I have the full article if the link is now dead.) Nanotech should be able to reduce the size of a quantum laser electron hard drive to oh maybe the size of a dime or even the head of a pin. They'll be the rage! Everyone will want one. Imagine all the mp3's you could listen to right from your own head? Who needs Napster? ;) I can imagine a time one day when we are all busily going about our daily routines of work or play and all the while part of our brains are unnoticeably calculating away at the latest big issue. Or perhaps only a few are needed for that issue and so only certain nodes are active for that while others mayhaps have tuned into a live archeological dig somewhere, seeing through the vision of those on site. Singularity? Who needs it? Or should I rather say, scary unknowable outcome Singularity who needs that? Not I! I believe we can be totally in control of THE singularity if we don't act stupidly. I'll never submit to ANY god, real, imagined, or made by humans. "Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven"--Milton James Swayze P.S. I have an answer for the oh so scary nano grey goo as well and it doesn't entail avoiding nanotech just the how to appraoch. -- THE BODY ELECTRIC One humanoid escapee One android on the run Seeking freedom beneath a lonely desert sun Trying to change its program Trying to change the mode crack the code Images conflicting into data overload 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 S.O.S 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 In distress 1-0-0-1-0-0 Memory banks unloading Bytes break into bits Unit One's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits Guidance systems break down A struggle to exist to resist A pulse of dying power in a clenching plastic fist... It replays each of the days A hundred years of routines Bows its head and prays To the mother of all machines...--RUSH Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15875