X-Message-Number: 15928
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 10:37:22 -0700
From: Mike Perry <>
Subject: Re: Jaynes Book

George Smith, #15921, discusses the Jaynes book, *The Origin of 
Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" with its amazing 
hypothesis that consciousness didn't exist among humans until about 3000 
years ago. He wants to know if others have read the book and what they 
think about it. I read the book back in the '80s and found it interesting 
but unconvincing, in part because, if people prior to 1000 BCE were 
"unconscious," then some primitive peoples of more recent times should also 
have this characteristic. Arguably, there are people today who fit this 
description, that is, being no further advanced than people in general of 
3K years ago. (I remember reading, for example, about a tribe of people 
living in a rain forest who build tree houses some sixty feet off the 
ground, and lack modern technology.) People like this should be studied to 
see if they are "unconscious"; I don't think they have been found to be. On 
the other hand, "unconscious" apparently doesn't mean the same thing as 
having no awareness, but maybe a dreamlike state would qualify. But this 
makes the whole question very fuzzy. What is a "dreamlike" state?

Mike Perry

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