X-Message-Number: 16035
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:50:21 -0500
From: david pizer <>
Subject: Cryonics community & Don't trust your lover

Two subjects to briefly discuss that have been recent subjects on Cryonet.
From David Pizer (retired VP, CFO and director of Alcor - speaking for
myself or the Venturists).

The Venturists are going to be building a cryonics community.   Look for
more imformation early in 2002.  For now all we can say is that it is going
to be built; permission for zoning has been approved and funding is in
place; plans are being drawn as we speak.  The first phase will be a resort
for temporary visits to Arizona, and for conferences.  Then in a couple
more years, on property near the resort will be homes for cryonicists to
live full time.

So, in a couple of years, there will be a place for cryonicists to come and
live among other like-minded cryonics-folks.  Together we can all try to
make a difference in the world.

There will not be any cryonics *done* (suspensions like done by Alcor or
CI) at the community.  It will be a place where cryonicists can live and
eventually deanimate.  There will be alarm systems to notify personel if
someone deanimates suddenly.  There will be supportive people there to see
that older (more at risk) people do not get talked out of cryonics by
well-meaning relatives if they get senile.  Residents can even specify what
relatives they do not want to have access to them if they become incapcitated.

The Venturists is a cryonics-based, life extension religion that has been
around for over a decade.  The present board of directors include myself
and highly respected cryonicists: Mike Perry, Mark Voelker, Mark Plus, and
Joe Hovey.

Other services we expect to provide when the community is completed and we
have Venturists living there full time and some of them volunteering their
time to the cryonics community are:  Willingness to be power of attorney
health-care decision makers for other cryonicists (it may be a conflict of
interest to have a cryonics *suspension* company like Alcor or CI [who get
money at your legal death] to hold power of attorney to make health care
decisions, or any other decisions for you until after you are legally dead
- check with them); A back-up contract so that if your suspension company
goes out of business, there will be funds to have you (their patient) who
have obtained this protection moved to a new suspension company rather than
be defrosted; and, of course, to provide a safe, friendly, fun-oriented
place to live.

No more information if available at this time.  When we are in service we
will post an announcment on this forum, sometime in early 2002.


Next subject

Don't trust your non-cryonics spouse, significant other, lover, relative or
 (I'll just refer to all these as) "friend" to have you frozen - take care
of the details yourself; only put other trusted cryonicsts in charge of
making cryonics decisions for you.  If you don't have a cryonics friend,
make one!

In twenty years, I have seen suspensions that never got done because the
person in charge (had the legal authority) of the dying person made wrong
decisions at time of suspension - sometimes by accident, sometimes on
purpose.  (Also, I have seen a couple of instances where non-cryonics
people who had legal authority did support the wishes of the cryonicist -
but most times they did not).

I have seen examples of persons who trusted their non-cryonics friends and
at time of death bed to make decisions, and then the "friend" would not
even allow the cryonics team to enter the house/hospital and be at the bed
side to give fast preparation.  Then they denied access to the body.  And
do not trust any non-cryonics doctor!  Ask for their help and then put some
safeguards in place in case they don't follow through for your wishes.

I have seen where the friends had promised faithfully to support the
cryonics persons and did not follow through by accident and did not on
purpose.  Most of the time, the wrong decisions were made by the friend
because the friend just did not believe the cryonics option would really
work.  So extracting a promise from a non-believer is like having them
promise they will send a large amount of money to Santa Claus at your legal
death.  They will promise you that while you are alive, but they won't send
the money when you are dead.

There was even a case long ago, where the cryonicist put in his will that
his two children could not get their share of his estate until after he was
in suspension.  They let him get suspended, then they got the money, and
then they got him unsuspended and they also got the money he had left for
his suspension.  So if you are in that situation, you may want to put in
you will that your relatives get a little of your money when you die after
you are suspended, and then a little more after you are in suspension for
10 years, and then some more in another 10 years, and so on and so forth.
In other words, put a financial incentive for them to see that you get
suspended and stay suspended rather that (de facto) create a situation
where there is a financial incentive for them to not get you frozen and not
see that you stay frozen.

That is why it is best for the cryonicist without a cryonicist friend to
make sure that his/her suspension company has the legal power of attorney
to make health decisions (or if that is a conflict of interest - at least
they can help find a trusted cryonicist who will do it), and have all the
paperwork signed and have all the payment taken care of before the
cryoncist even gets sick, let alone dies.

I know you are thinking that *your* friend will not let you down.  But
think about it this way, if your friend asked you to send $30,000 to
$120,000 to Santa Clause after he/she died, would you really follow through???

David Pizer

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