X-Message-Number: 1627 Date: 16 Jan 93 20:10:08 EST From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: CRYONICS Response to Pizer and Henson's remarks re Saul Kent >From Mike Darwin To: All Re: Dave Pizer's and Keith Henson's postings re Saul Kent Date: 15 January, 1992 I have delayed responding to Keith and Dave's postings regarding Saul Kent largely as an exercise to see who else would respond and *how* they would respond. The response, or lack of it, was sadly as I expected. I spoke with Saul about the Pizer/Henson postings and he discouraged me from responding indicating quite correctly that I had other more productive things to do with my time. While he is correct about pressing demans on my time, nevertheless, a response is merited and I am one of the few men left living who was a witness to *all* these events who is still involved in cryonics and who can testify as to what happened. I understand completely why Saul chose not to respond until specific accusations were leveled, rather than the dirty innuendo put forth so far. And further, to do so only in a format that allows full disclosure. One does not write the history of a thing in a brief E-Mail message, and in many ways this format is the wrong one to respond in. However, the fact remains that a charge, even by implication or innuendo, that a man was responsible for loss of a suspension patient(s) or injury or harm to a suspension patient(s) is the most serious that can be made in cryonics. Having been the victim of such unjustified innuendo myself, I am acutely sensitive to its use against others. I must also state here that this account has been written from my own memory and without consultation with Saul Kent or anyone else. I want to make clear from the outset that when Pizer says "I believe people would like answers to these questions, (sic about the loss of 7 CSNY/Cryo-Span suspension patients) NOT to humiliate you, but to try to know if you have learned from previous disasters" he is asking the "questions" in a loaded, prejudicial manner with the clear implication that there was wrongdoing on Saul's part. This would be obvious to anyone who has had a high school debate class. Further, if such a question were asked in that fashion in any blue-collar bar the interrogator would *know* his error once he recovered consciousness and emptied his mouth of his teeth. The story of CSNY and Cryo-Span is an interesting one, a tragic one, and one from which there is much to learn. Unfortunately, it is the Board of Directors of Alcor and some of its staff which needs to learn the lessons this story has to teach, not Saul Kent. To tell this story I must take you back to another era very different from the one cryonics is now in. It was a time when NO ONE was interested in cryonics but a tiny handful of people. There were perhaps 30 SERIOUSLY INTERESTED PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. There was a great deal of superficial media interest, but little serious interest. Curtis Henderson, Saul Kent, an attorney named Richard Vingello and a small group of local investors formed Cryo-Span to deliver cryonic suspension services to the Cryonics Society of New York. Within a very short period of time -- from July 1968 to May of 1970 -- five of the "seven" patients Dave alleges were "lost" were placed into cryonic suspension via CSNY and Cryo-Span. During this period Curtis Henderson was running Cryo-Span on a day-to-day basis and Saul's responsibilities were largely to remain employed, funnel significant amounts of his income into putting out the CSNY newsletter *Cryonics Reports* which he paid for out of his own pocket often as not, and carry an enormous administrative burden. This burden consisted of answering all information requests (there were many at that time), carrying on an extensive correspondence, organizing meetings, and trying to get improved support from members. His efficiency at this was legend. I am a testimony to both his efficiency and his thoroughness. I got my information packet from CSNY a few days after I wrote, and Saul began a correspondence with a 12-year-old boy that lasted nearly a decade. I assure you I was treated no differently than hundreds of others. While Saul handled much of the administrative burden and tried to get improved membership and support for cryonics, Curtis took care of the patients. It should be remembered that this was a different era in terms of printing and that the desk-top publishing industry was not even a gleam in Steve Jobs' eye. Printing *Cryonics Reports* and producing it was extremely costly and time-consuming. Indeed, most magazines of that size and quality would have a paid, full-time staff of 1-2 people. The cost of typesetting and printing the magazine ran into the hundreds of dollars every month (1968 dollars!). Saul absorbed most of this cost and spent all of the time required. For this he was paid nothing and for this he was reviled by a small but vocal segment of the cryonics community at that time (nothing has changed in 25 years). Meanwhile CSNY had frozen five patients. It is important to understand several things about these suspensions: 1) All were initiated by the next-of-kin after the patient's legal death. 2) All upkeep was paid for on a year-by-year basis by next-of-kin. 3) In several cases little or no money was paid and the responsibility for caring for these patients was borne largely by Curtis Henderson and Saul. While the idea of trust funds for long term care of patients was around from the beginning (see Ettinger's *The Prospect of Immortality*) no one really knew what the costs would be in any realistic way. It turned out that even if the first patients had provided long-term care trusts in the amounts then recommended, they still would have been grossly inadequate. Cryonics was simply too new with simply too many unforeseen contingencies. I have heard through Mike Perry that Pizer is privately stating that "Saul should have known better than to freeze people without long-term funding after they froze the first person or two." Easily said now. However, as I have been at pains to point out, five of Pizer's "seven" were suspended in roughly a two year period. This gave little time for feedback. And there were precious few people to receive such feedback. Cryo-Span consisted of essentially two active people: Curtis and Saul. The cryonics community as a whole was an isolated and fragmented group of individuals held together largely by letter writing via the US mail. Indeed, if there were two cryonicists in any given area, this was remarkable, and such individuals were considered lucky beyond words. You have no idea of the loneliness and the isolation we felt. There was NO ONE who thought what we were doing was rational and we had almost no luck whatsoever in persuading others to join us. It was a terrible time. What no one anticipated was the magnitude of the burden of caring for these patients. A business, any business, requires a great number of things: paying bills, maintaining insurance, invoicing customers, preparing tax forms, cleaning and maintaining the equipment and premises. In short, an enormous amount of overhead much of which exists regardless of whether the business is small or large, profitable or unprofitable. Curtis and Saul were faced with running such a business with essentially two or three customers at any one time, most of whom could not afford to pay for the real costs of the service. Of course Curtis and Saul could have thawed the patients out right then and there. But they didn't because they were hostages to their decency and loyalty tothe patients and because they, like the rest of us, JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE THINGS WOULDN'T GET BETTER IF ONLY THEY COULD HANG ON LONG ENOUGH. Instead, things just got worse. A cryonics business (at least as soon as you have patients to care for) carries with it another kind of overhead and that is maintaining the patients. This becomes a problem only if you work during the day since liquid nitrogen is only delivered during business hours and then only WITHOUT an appointment (sometimes, if you are lucky they will tell you if they can make it in the A.M. or the P.M., but don't count on it). This means that if you have a day job, you will soon LOSE it. This happened to Curtis Henderson (and Cryo-Span was NOT a profitable operation that could pay him a salary!). Indeed, Cryo-Span *consumed* rather than generated capital. (Later Curtis solved the LN2 problem in part by going to pick it up himself: but he still had to do it during business hours.) I know about all this for two reasons: First, when I was 16 I went out to Long Island and spent a good hunk of my summer vacation there living with Curtis and his family and "working" in the Cryo-Span facility. Second, I am one of the few men alive who started a cryonics facility and spent those long days waiting for the LN2 truck to pull up. What very soon happened was that some of the patient's relatives quit paying, payed only sporadically, or argued, bitched, and moaned beyond any possible comprehension. These ravings were unequalled in cryonics until recently. For those who wish to appreciate their flavor you have only to look at what has been posted on this net in the last few months to appreciate the sheer mean-spiritedness and gross stupidity. that went on at that time. In some ways the two situations are very close and the ironies are not lost on me: the cast of characters was much like it is now. Perhaps cryonics attracts such ilk out of proportion: more likely it is the phenomenon of the "crud rising to the top." By this I mean that people willing to take responsible positions in cryonics are often the least qualified to do so. However, those better qualified to, i.e., stable, nonsociopathic individuals with sound judgment have too much to lose and are unwilling to work for so little remuneration. There are occasional exceptions to this: quality individuals with courage and commitment who will make sacrifices in taking positions of responsibility. But damn few. The result? The crud rises to the top. Why were the relatives unhappy? Why were they unable or unwilling to pay? The unhappiness is the most difficult to explain. However, since I interacted with many of these people I feel I am in a good posirion to understand it. Several of these people were what might tastefully be described as far out on a limb of the bell shaped curve of normal in terms of socialization; this is to be expected in the early days of something like cryonics. Several of the relatives placed their "loved" ones in suspension to "make up" for a lifetime of manipulative abuse, making amends for which, had become complicated by death. How fortunate cryonics was for these people: now they had a fresh pool of people to heap abuse upon. Nick DeBlasio was a case in point; a former New York cop with an IQ of about 80, a bluster, wear 'em down with argument (rational or not) mentality, (sound like anyone else we know?) and a gun which he used to threaten hospital officials with (and anyone else he disliked, which was to say nearly everyone). Pauline Mandel was a female version of Nick (minus the gun) -- in fact they were engaged to each other at one point! And of course there were relatives like the Halpert/Dastals who had absolutely no interest in cryonics at all and thought it was nutty, disgusting thing. Since cryonics was small, totally impoverished and completely defenseless at that time these people could do a lot of harm and believe me, they knew it and lost no opportunity to do so. Complicating the matter was that no one had any money. The relatives of most of the patients were largely working class people. And yet the bills had to be paid. But perhaps the real reason for a lot of the acrimony was the complete and utter failure of expectations. NOBODY EXPECTED CRYONICS WOULD TURN OUT THAT WAY. You see, it wasn't supposed to happen like that. It was supposed to catch on, big companies were supposed to get involved. There were supposed to be economies of scale. The pioneers and their families were supposed to be looked up to, not laughed at. Cryonics facilities were supposed to be gleaming, and solid, and staffed by technically sophisticated people; not be dirty little industrial bays with a man bleeding himself to death trying to take care of the patients. It wasn't supposed to be like that! And everybody felt cheated, and everybody was MAD. I know, because when I found out how IT REALLY WAS I felt cheated, and I felt angry. BUT I DIDN'T TAKE IT OUT ON CURTIS HENDERSON OR SAUL KENT. These then are the reasons for the situation unfolding as it did. But what actually happened to the patients Dave alleges that CSNY and Cryo-Span lost?: Steven Mandel: 24 year old aeronautical engineering student who had started to sign-up with CSNY when he died of chronic enteritis on 28 July, 1968. Mandel had purchased a New York Life policy and had lied to the company about his health: he was already in the final stages of enteritis when he procured the policy and he died a few weeks later during surgery. New York Life quite justifiably refused to pay. Pauline Mandel (Steven's mother) proceeded with his suspension. CSNY never collected any money for the dewar Steven was placed in, and collected only a few hundred dollars for liquid nitrogen bills. *Sometime around 1974 Steven was allowed to thaw out and decompose by Robert F. Nelson to whose care HE HAD BEEN TRANSFERRED TO BY STEVEN'S MOTHER, PAULINE.* Andrew Mihok: a middle aged heart attack victim who was placed into suspension briefly by his wife. Mihok was in suspension only a matter of hours before it became apparent that this was not something the family could afford, and that further, the wife was not adequately informed about the risks and benefits of cryonics. CSNY acted in this case only because there was no time to lose since the patient was already "down." *Both CSNY and Mrs. Mihok agreed that proceeding beyond dry ice was inappropriate -- indeed this patient probably never even reached dry ice temperature.* Ann DeBlasio: a 43 year-old breast cancer victim whose husband Nick had her placed into suspension. *Nick DeBlasio, acting on advice from and with the help of Robert F. Nelson removed Ann from Cryo-Span's care and placed her in a facility operated by himself and Nelson. Ann was allowed to thaw out and decompose (along with another woman Nelson placed in the dewar with her) in the summer of 1980.* I am intimately familiar with this case since it was a colleague and I who removed Mrs. DeBlasio and her companion, badly decomposed and *in pieces* from this unit. I did this primarily to save cryonics the scandal. It was one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life. Paul M. Hurst, Sr.: a 62 year old man placed into suspension by his son (a psychology professor) Paul Hurst, Jr. I never met Paul Hurst, Jr., but by all accounts he was a very pleasant and fair man who paid his bills and discharged his obligations well. Around 1974 Mr. Hurst, Jr. decided to move to Australia and his financial situation was such that he could no longer care for his father. *As his father had been suspended only after a lengthy delay and had been embalmed prior to suspension as well, he decided to discontinue the suspension and had his father conventionally interred.* Herman Greenberg: a 51 year-old accountant who was placed into suspension by his daughter Gillian Cummings in May of 1970. *Mr. Greenberg's suspension terminated when his wife ordered his removal from suspension after the death of their daughter in the Cryo-Span facility where she was living in her car.* It should be noted that Gillian was living in the facility and working on an ice cream truck to make enough money to keep the liquid nitrogen bills paid and her father and the other patients at the facility frozen. There are two other patients which Cryo-Span or its personnel had some degree of involvement with. However, one of these patients was never cared for by Cryo-Span: Clara Dastal: a 60 year-old woman who I was in part responsible for suspending. Thus, I take Dave's charge that we were in some way mistaken, immoral, or wrong in continuing to suspend people quite personally since Clara is one of Dave's "seven." Mrs. Dastal was the exception to all the rest. She was a CSNY member with fully executed paperwork and a trust fund established to pay for her care. Failure to suspend her would have exposed CSNY to enormous civil liability and would have been immoral in the bargain. Following her suspension Mrs. Dastal's two loving children went to court, broke her trust, and obtained a court order for her interment. However, they did the latter only after first listening to Bob Nelson tell them that they were being "gouged and ripped-off" by Curtis Henderson and that they could store their mother cheaper with him. After receiving payment of $2000, Nelson absconded with the money and never picked Clara up from CSNY. The Dastals, (Claire Halpert her daughter, and Richard Dastal her son) gentle folks that they were, hired a private detective, went after Nelson with a vengeance, and in the process uncovered the Chatsworth disaster and exposed Nelson for the lying, murderous fraud that he was. Michael Baburka: I understand that Mr. Buburka was dead several days before he was found in the New York subway and that he had been autopsied. Mr. Buburka was placed into suspension by his son circa 1980 with assistance from Curtis Henderson. He was stored in a miniwharehouse by the son *until the authorities were called to the site and found his decomposing body in the dewar. Saul Kent had long left the New York area before this suspension was undertaken and both CSNY and Cryo-Span were defunct by this time. Indeed, as I recall, Saul knew nothing about this suspension until long after it had happened. Curtis became involved only because of the desperation of the son. Now let us return to Dave's accusations by innuendo. First, as can be seen from the above, neither Cryo-Span nor CSNY EVER lost any patients. Patients were removed from their care in every instance by the next-of-kin who had either placed them into suspension or who had full legal and financial control over them. Furthermore, it is my expert opinion that NONE of these patients would have been placed into suspension if large amounts of up-front money had been required. And, what is more, even if a trust fund had existed to care for one or two of these patients it would have had to have been large enough to have provided for operation of a completely dedicated facility, i.e., a facility operated to care for that patient and that patient alone since the pool of patients rapidly dwindled to one or two with enormous overhead costs accruing to those one or two patients. Keep in mind also that there was a long period of time where the ONLY reliable storage facility was the Cryo-Span facility. Californians and others relying on Nelson were living in a fool's paradise at this time. During the period of time that Cryo-Span operated its facility there was an unrelenting and bitter series of attacks from Nelson and his associates accusing CSNY and Cryo-Span of, of all things, *substandard cryogenic care* (all the while Nelson's patients ROTTED). I spoke with Curtis Henderson and Saul about this several times and I was told: "there are many and serious problems here, please come out and see for yourself what we are up against." *I did so*, in sharp contrast to the dozen or so others who were content to sit on their asses and throw around innuendo and lies about situations they knew NOTHING about. I was 16 years old at the time and I had to work my tail off cleaning garbage off plates for a summer at the Indianapolis Convention Center to save the air fare. What I found was a gritty operation being maintained by a man in the throes of serious alcoholism. A man who, with almost superhuman will, had sacrificed everything: his family, his savings, his job, and his health to keep those patients in suspension. During my summer in New York I saw Curtis Henderson come home from the night shift at Sonic (the people who made the K-Tell records once advertised extensively on TV) where he held a job working under conditions so full of hazards and toxic chemicals there are no words to describe it, get up a few hours later, and take care of the patients. I saw him come home with a broken arm one Friday, rest for a few hours and then drag himself through the routine of getting liquid nitrogen before attending to himself. I saw him care for those patients using his own money -- money that should have been spent providing for the basic needs of his wife and children. I cannot tell you the rage I feel when confronted with the filth pouring out of the mouth of a creature of Dave Pizer's stature. Filth couched in the language of friendship, fairness, and gentility. I have known Dave Pizer for nearly a decade and worked alongside him as a Director of Alcor (a position I opposed him having). During that interval I came to expect as routine outright falsehoods, gross distortions, and critical omissions of information in my communications with him. I suffered through his defense of Robert Nelson and his publication of an "exhonerating" series of interviews with Nelson. I have long questioned his intelligence and now I must question his integrity. You will note that of the patients "lost" by CSNY listed above, DeBlasio, Dastal, and Mandel were lost with the help not of Curtis Henderson and Saul Kent, but rather with help so generously provided by Robert F. Nelson who Mr. Pizer has repeatedly defended not only to me, but to many others in the cryonics community. Earlier I spoke of what was to be learned from the CSNY and Cryo-Span experience. Much was learned by that brooding, high strung lad who spent his summer on Long Island at Curtis Henderson's elbow and his Christmas vacation from his Junior year in high school perfusing Clara Dastal. Much of what I learned became engraved in stone (or hopefully so) when Alcor was created. Not accepting patients on a year-to-year basis, the 10% Rule to cover inflation, increased costs, and the cost of reanimation, the importance of utter honesty in communications with clients, the absolute primacy of technical and scientific excellence over any other consideration.... Alcor could learn much from the CSNY/Cryo-Span experience. Its Directors and key staffers could learn to be honest about the shortcomings and deficiencies of Alcor's suspension program as they perceive them. It is not necessary that they agree with anyone else's assessments -- only that they be honest about the ones in their own hearts instead of lying to themselves and others. For as bad as things were at CSNY, neither Saul Kent nor Curtis Henderson ever tried to hide them, not from me, not from anyone, not for one moment. Indeed, if I learned my supposedly tactless and ruthless honesty about such matters from anyone it was from Curtis Henderson whom I wish to publicly thank for that most precious and painful of gifts. At no time was I ever told by Saul or Curtis that I should not talk to anyone or that there were individuals whose ideas were a "threat to cryonics". Quite the contrary! They urged me to talk to as many people as possible, listen to as many ideas as possible and form my own opinions. They trusted my good judgment and respected my individuality and intellectual sovereignty. Indeed, in my entire 25 year experience in cryonics only three men have suggested that certain men were dangerous to associate with, or had ideas which threatened cryonics or their cryonics society. Those three men are Keith Henson, Dave Pizer, and Robert Nelson. Indeed just those sorts of words, just those sorts of tactics were Nelson's modus operendi: don't talk with the Chamberlains they are extremists who will discredit cryonics and destroy the Cryonics Society of California (CSC). The Chamberlains should just shut up and quietly provide their technical and money to CSC instead of making all these demands... God, how familiar and how ironic it is to read those words 20 years later written by people who are running an organization that was created to escape them. I have many criticisms of Saul Kent and I have been very vocal in the past that he not be on the Alcor Board and not be an Alcor Officer until his problems with the FDA are resolved. However, never did I suggest that Saul (or anyone else!) be excluded from talking or interacting in any way (which did not involve the use of force or fraud) with any person at any time. Saul Kent is a man who stands accused of a "crime" by the FDA. He has not been proven guilty. Furthermore, the "crime" of which he is accused is one which many others I know in the AIDS community have been richly rewarded for, and have even received cooperation and praise from the FDA for (selling drugs not approved by the FDA). Furthermore, as Steve Harris and others have quite rightly pointed out, the FDA is an unjust and unconstitutional agency which has cost the lives and health of countless human beings. All but the most thickheaded can see that when it costs 230 million dollars to introduce a drug, ANY drug, something is WRONG. If Saul is guilty of the "crimes" he is accused of, I salute him. If he was the Hauptman Institute, my hat is off to him, for I know of many who were helped by the medicines Hauptman supplied. Now we come to Dick Jones and the "major mistakes" Dave alleges that Saul made in handling this case. Let us start at the beginning: the decision to initiate the litigation. Saul is quite right when he states that there was 100% agreement that this litigation needed to be launched. In fact it was more like 110% agreement. I have heard rumors floating around to the effect that I was opposed to the litigation. That is not true. It is true that I was opposed to the way it was handled in its later stages, but never that I opposed it. The litigation was moral and necessary for several reasons both practical and philosophical and I list them here: 1) The new trust document which Dick "signed" a few hours before his legal death gave his business partner Jenna McMahon full control of his body and of his cryonic suspension. Dick had a great deal of resentment towards Jenna, and when Dick, his attorney Andy Potter, and I were doing his estate plan he flatly refused to leave Jenna any money or to have her act in any capacity for him (he even refused to allow her to organize a memorial service!). 2) Dick desperately wanted his estate to go to Alcor. Both Any Potter and I argued futilely and at length with Dick to leave his Sister Claire Martin a large hunk of his estate and to mention Jenna to the tune of 10K or 20K. I was very moved and impressed by Dick's inflexibility here because Dick was rarely decisive and was one of the gentlest, nicest people I had ever met. His fierce determination not to leave Claire more than a token amount was tremendously unusual for him. 3) Alcor needed the money desperately. Indeed, it might be argued that Alcor would not have survived without the infusion of cash at that time. Jerry Leaf, Carlos Mondragon, and Hugh Hixon were vigorously behind the litigation not only in principle but in execution. Indeed, I can remember a very humiliating moment after an Alcor Board Meeting at Brenda Peters' home where Carlos all but called me a coward in front of a member for expressing my opinion that the case would probably be settled and that at best Alcor could hope to split the baby. But before I go further I should point out something that Pizer fails completely to mention and that is that Dick Jones became a member of Alcor PRIMARILY as a result of one man's effort. Who was that man? The answer is SAUL KENT. I remember this quite well because I had approached Dick several times about joining Alcor since he had (as was so typical of him) contributed money to various Alcor projects even though he was not a member. Dick declined my invitations. In fact, it took a great deal of encouragement from Saul to get Dick to switch from the organization he was signed up with to Alcor. *Thus, if it were not for Saul there would be no Dick Jones estate to accuse him of mishandling.* There was never any question that the litigation needed to be pursued and that it needed to be pursued aggressively because Dick's life was on the line. I might also add that my pessimism about the case came perilously close to being misplaced. The fact is that Saul and David Epstein (the attorney) almost won that one. I know this for several reasons. First, the principle opposing attorney in the case, Barret McInerny, was active in the gay and AIDS community and I later heard from a mutual friend that his law firm was ready to drop the case since they had taken it on a contingency basis and had racked up huge bills. But more directly I heard first-hand from the physician who testified that Dick was competent that he (the physician) perjured himself both as a favor to his legal friends and because he did not know the background of the case and thought ill of cryonics and Alcor. How did I come to know this physician? Simple, he was later both the attending physician and the close friend for ANOTHER suspension member for whom he acted just as loyally in assuring his suspension as he acted disloyally when he said he saw Dick and that Dick was lucid and competent. Saul came damned close to winning. The Jones litigation was enormously complex. When I filed the legal papers in Dick's suspension file it took up an entire fireproof file of -- and that is with some of the material on microfilm. Saul and attorney David Epstein (who later won the Alcor case against the Department of Health Services) did a meticulous job of preparing the case including the recruitment of truly stellar expert witnesses such as the co-discoverer of the AIDS clinical syndrome, Michael Gottleib, M.D. Had it not been for judicial prejudice and perjury Saul might well have won. I did not myself appreciate how good the case was until I sat for many hours and read over the evidence that Saul and Epstein put together, but which was never presented. They showed conclusively from the medical evidence that Dick was not competent at the time the second trust document was signed. They did this by interviews with nursing staff, physicians, and others caring for Dick and by a meticulous analysis of the nursing and other medical records. They did this with testimony from physicians expert in this area. They also documented countless incidents of perjury, distortions, and contradictions on the part of Jenna, Claire and their counsel. The record is an almost unbelievable one to read. The case as it was prepared was excellent. This was a fact I did not appreciate at the time. However, I believe that Carlos appreciated it and I am more than a little surprised at his silence on this matter since this criticism by Dave is necessarily a criticism of Carlos. For Carlos was not only CEO during this interval, he was closely involved in the litigation and one of its strongest champions. I cannot let this matter go without dealing with Dave's reckless and totally incorrect statement that Saul dissuaded Dick months before his death from leaving his sister a large share of his estate. This is outrageous. Months before his legal death Dick was adamantly opposed to leaving one cent more to Claire than he had already been "coerced" (his word) into doing. I know because I met with Dick frequently during this interval. For Dave to suggest otherwise is at a minimum grossly irresponsible; however there are other adjectives which I think better apply. I would also note that the estimates of the value of the estate which formed the basis upon which many decision were made (including outlays for legal bills) was flawed. Saul had no way of knowing this at the time, but later Carlos Mondragon did. But in the months that followed the settlement Carlos relied on the opposition's estimates and made many critical decisions for Alcor on this basis. The cost to Alcor of this error has been enormous, and in my opinion every bit as financially damaging as the "mishandling" of the litigation by Saul. Perhaps the last word on this matter should be Carlos': he has stated to me and others on more than one occasion that despite Alcor having to pay the legal bills for both sides Alcor still got considerably better than half of the estate. This was the amount Alcor was first offered by the relatives, minus of course the small detail of control of Dick's suspension. Was it worth it for that last little detail alone. Hell yes! Pizer's ignorance about the Jones case is shocking enough in and of itself, especially in light of his duty to be informed as an Alcor Director. That he would compound his ignorance with the stupidity to make the charges he has in a public forum is even more outrageous. Henson's assertion that Saul is dangerous and should not talk to staff or Board members is so outrageous that I will not waste another word puncturing it. That such people continue to remain on the Alcor Board, and that they continue to foster such hypocrisy, bad judgment, unfair treatment of members (such as Saul), lack of due process, lack of technical excellence, and outright lies are the reasons I left Alcor. I think they are very good reasons indeed. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1627