X-Message-Number: 16311 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:38:26 +0200 (MET DST) From: Eugene Leitl <> Subject: CryoNet #16306: UK situation [Charles Platt] The lesson from the past decade in cryonics appears rather dismal. Not only is the product intrinsically difficult to sell, it is technically demanding, and under current framing conditions difficult to deploy in the field, especially rapidly (when little forewarning if any is given) and with adequate geographic coverage. Quality control and documentation is either absent or patchy at best. As a result, consistency in application of even existing well developed protocols vary widely. Self-selecting personal dynamics result in general unreasonability if in not in flakiness of all aspects of behaviour of all parties involved, business practices included. I do not exclude myself from this assessment. Advanced methods do exist, yet there is no significant demand from the parts of the customers to lobby for a better product. This pattern is easily visible and extremely off-putting to any potentially interested establishment professional practicioners, who immediately back off and do not come back to reinvestigate the field, which stagnates as a result. Peer review is absent. As a result, criminally negligent service providers continue to exist (this means you, Robert Ettinger/CI) and to operate, severely damaging and potentially killing patients in their care. Reluctantly, I've decided to take the (personal, your mileage *will* vary) consequences and for time being am going to stop participation in all cryonics-related activities, whether at the service or the client side. I'm betting on the mainstream medicine on the long run to eventually realize the feasibility of reversible cryosuspension using the emerging techniques of bulk molecular-scale imaging and reconstruction, and to make it an integral part of last-resort emergency care, profiting from economies of scale, infrastructure and synergisms. Given current and accelerating rate of progress in a number of relevant fields as well as changing world demographics, this does not appear at all unlikely, 30-40 decades of such ongoing developments assuming. If this does not occur, or I happen to die before, so be it. I think I still owe any potential customers and current customers of CI a fully listed disclosure of what is technically wrong with CI, and why I consider it to be improbable, that CI -- miracles excluded -- will ever fix it. Not that this is going to matter very much, but I'll put my name under it, and the archives will get it. Running into this information may prevent the one or the other signup. Having this said, I strongly discourage litigation against CI, since if successful, it will endanger the patients under their care, which might or might not be still salvageable. In closing, I would very much like to express my admiration to all the technical people out there in the field who're pulling in their full weight, against above odds. You know who you are. Especial thanks go to Saul Kent and Bill Faloon, may their commitment continue unwavering. I'll hang around for a few days here before firing off the CI assessment piece (mostly assembled from freely available information, Cryonet archives included), to catch your comments, if any. Apart from that dangling end, I'm almost out of here. I hope you all make it. -- Eugene ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message #16306 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 11:28:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Platt <> Subject: UK situation While not wanting to hammer this topic till it becomes as boring as, say, the discussions of human vs. machine intelligence, or identity, I did find the following material interesting. It's a copy of some email that was sent and signed by about a dozen British people, to Alcor, a couple of months ago. I think it sheds light on the situation. So far as I know, the request in the letter was denied. --Charles Platt ----------------------------------------- We the undersigned UK residents have experienced delays & difficulties with Alcor Membership. Some of us have been waiting since 1999 for Alcor to complete our paperwork. We have all been encouraged to join Alcor. For example in a document entitled "Towards Autonomy-a Proposal for Alcor UK- dated 16th. August 2000, Linda Chamberlain states: 1. First Stage of Conversion-Split Program Years 2000-2002. In this period you should pursue greater membership as rapidly as possible. Acting on this advice & in good faith many of us have spent thousands of pounds taking out UK Life Insurance Policies, putting them in Trust, paying Solicitors, Public Notaries & others. In a letter dated February 12th. 2001 Linda says " I'm afraid we will have to make the international membership requirements apply to the UK as well (no longer being able to offer Scottish Amicable as an exception with the UK)" However some of us have taken out Life Insurance before applying for Membership(as Alcor advises) If we cancel or even just re-assign these Policies we would face considerable financial losses through no fault of our own. We therefore request that Alcor accepts all such Policies arranged before the Feb.12th. announcement & allows us to proceed with our Membership. Signed: [names withheld] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16311