X-Message-Number: 16337
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:14:41 -0400
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: A little off topic but what is the beef with Seventh Day Adventists?
References: <>

See below comments:

CryoNet wrote:

> CryoNet - Fri 25 May 2001
>     #16332: Platt Falls Flat / Gene Gets Mean / UK's Stray [davidpascal]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16332
> Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 02:01:37 -0400
> Subject: Platt Falls Flat / Gene Gets Mean / UK's Stray
> From: 

David Pascal reminding us of a Charles Platt quote wrote:

> One such expatriate is back, and another one is about to ship off.  Mr.

> Charles Platt, refreshed and chipper from his sabbatical, wrote [sic] 
"Personally I feel
> that they might just as well join the Seventh Day Adventists."   And
> before that -- well, you get the idea.

Here's the actual quote from Cryonet #16191-#16200: "b) Some of them (at least a
dozen) are opting for the Cryonics Institute.

Personally I feel that they might just as well join the Seventh Day Adventists, 
since I doubt that many CI patients have much chance of

resuscitation. Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I hold it strongly, and I
deeply regret the loss of these Alcor UK members."

The Adventists are further referred to:

> Vitrification?  Yep, we're lookin'
> into that too, folks.  Suffice it to say that when you have independent
> tests on your procedures run by PhD's at major universities, and when a
> certified degree-bearing professional cryobiologist trained at the
> largest cryobiological institute in the world is head of your research
> department -- and when you are the *only* cryonics organization that has
> these qualifications -- well, then, I'd say it is a big leap to fairly
> equate the results with the Seventh Day Adventists.  But then the key
> word is 'fairly'.

And further referred to:

>  If you are
> unhappy with CI protocols, then join CI and work to make them better.
> They're getting better whether you work for them or not, but your dues
> are more likely to help us than your religious metaphors.  If you feel a
> plague on both our houses is appropriate, do not plague them personally:
> join Kyros, and build it up, rather than wasting your time in the futile
> attempt to tear us down.  And if you don't like Kyros either?  Join the
> Seventh Day Adventists.  You'll get the same burial you're headed for
> now, but at least there'll be some good Gospel at the wake.
> -- David ("Dem Bones / Dem Bones / Gonna Rise!") Pascal

David signs off with the suggestion that those wishing to know the actual 
positions of various organizations should go to their links, one of which is for
Seventh Day Adventists. Doing so may surprise some folks.

> The case for CI can be found at
> http://www.cryonics.org, the case for Alcor at http://www.alcor.org, the
> case for ACS at http://www.acs.org, the case for Kyros by writing Mike
> Darwin at , and the case for Seventh Day Adventists at
> http://www.adventist.org.
> Happy reading, and Amen.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't have a clue why Charles Platt would refer to the Seventh Day Adventists 
in mocking fashion to highlight shortcomings he feels CI has. More specifically 
I don't know why he would choose to prefer to use this religious organization 
over any other as being particularly silly or useless for a way of achieving 
immortality and thus useful for mocking

CI but I respectfully submit he hasn't a clue what Seventh Day Adventists truly 
are about.

I used to be one. If I could kid myself into still believing in God I would be 
Seventh Day Adventist over any other religion. Having studied some about most 
other religions and indeed most other Christian based religions I still find 
SDA's as the most practical and logical and literal truth following of any 
religion in existence. This is of course

assuming the bible had no flaws which now being an atheist I adamantly point out
that it does at every opportunity.

However, had I not been an Adventist once I most probably would not be an 
immortalist or extropian or hopeful to be cryonicist. Notice I didn't say I am a
cryonicist. This is because I am not funded nor likely will be any time soon 
but that's another issue. First of all Adventists are practicing Life 
Extensionists! They were so long before science ever

got the notion to consider it. They were many generations before any of us here 
were even born. Second only to their preaching that the seventh day Sabbath of 
the ten commandments is Saturday and not Sunday, and they are right--just 
consult a calendar, is their health message.

They encourage vegetarianism. They abstain from pork, not just because some part
of the bible suggests it and not also solely because pork once was dangerous 
for trichinosis, but for practical--one may even say scientific--reason based on
the fact a pig has just one stomach and therefore the possibility that more 
toxins will reach the animals flesh. They

observed the effects of biomagnification (the theory that toxins accumulate and 
magnify in effect as food travels up the food chain from smaller beings being 
eaten by larger and so on) long before it became a scientific theory. Another 
not well known fact is that many Adventists have practiced and preach caloric 
restriction long before Walford adopted
the practice.

The founder of the church first promoted a healthful lifestyle in the 1800's 
when it was unheard of. She was even instrumental in raising/shortening the 
lengths of skirts because she felt it unhealthy to be so fully closed in and 
that the skirts of the day dragged in the dirt which was caught up to land upon 
the body--this despite the prudish sexual

morality fashions of the day. She promoted healthy breathing techniques and the 
opening of windows for fresh air and also bathing in a time full of 
superstitious beliefs to the contrary.

Speaking of fresh air and preaching healthy lifestyles how many churches do you 
know of that have a 5 day quit smoking program? How many do you know of that 
produce and market soy meat substitutes. Guess what, Adventists knew red meat 
was not so good for you long before it became mainstream scientific theory!

Politically Adventists unlike ALL other fundamentalist religions strongly 
support separation of church and state. In our present time where conservative 
christians all around us are clamoring to bring government and religion together
and promoting such things as prayer in school and infiltrating school boards 
and government offices with right wing

christian extremists, Adventists stand apart in condescension of such deeds. 
They support freedom of speech more than any other fundamentalist group. 
Adventists tend to be either liberal or libertarian bent and even those that are
members of the republican party. Regarding issues of legislation that 
cryonicists may someday face you can count on that

Adventists will be allies not enemies. They've always supported a persons right 
to personal choice over state dictated.

Scientifically Adventists have always been ahead of the crowd where other 
fundamentalist religions are concerned and very often ahead of mainstream 
science as I have mentioned above. They are not afraid to try unpopular and even
controversial sciences. You all may remember the attempt to transplant a baboon
heart into a human. A failure, yes, but they

didn't shy away from it out of superstition and didn't get detracted by issues 
of human versus animal ethical bugaboos. Unlike other fundamentalist religions 
biology departments at Adventist colleges and hospitals recognize the Earth is 
older than the literal bible interpretation and that evolution defines our 
medical theories. Adventists have always
believed we are not alone in the universe and so are not Earth centric.

Theologically speaking Seventh Day Adventists among all christian religions 
would be the most accepting of cryonics. They do not believe that one's soul 
exists before birth. Unlike many christian religions they do not believe that 
the soul upon death immediately goes to heaven. They will point out that in 29 
places in the bible the state of the dead is

written as being unconsciousness or sleep, that you "know nothing" and cannot be
contacted or held accountable. They do not believe in contemporary faddish 
beliefs of the charismatic fundamentalists such as speaking in tongues or the 
rapture nor in secular spiritualism. They do not believe that life after death 
is as a bodiless spirit. They don't believe

in ghosts, except for the third being in the trinity the "Holly Ghost". So, 
given all this every Adventist I have talked with has no problem with cryonics 
agreeing with me that it is no more a usurpation of their god's plan than 
cardiac resuscitation and they have no problem with that either. They have all 
agreed that if one does come back from cryonic
suspension then one was not truly yet dead.

Out of all christian religions the first to be an ally to cryonics, I would 
submit, would be the Seventh Day Adventists. In fact I would encourage the 
cryonicists here that have christian spouses and relatives who are not friendly 
to cryonics to urge them to become SDA as a first step towards accepting 
cryonics. One reason to justify cryonics for anyone

that shares Adventist beliefs would be to use cryonics as a way to be alive to 
actually witness their Christ's return.

On a personal note all of my family, save one, my step brother who shares my 
atheist beliefs, are Seventh Day Adventists including parents, grand parents, 
uncles, cousins and distant cousins on both sides of my family. When I told them
I wanted to be cryonically suspended they weren't shocked or appalled and 
support my decision. They don't like that I am

atheist but if I were not and still wished to be involved in cryonics they would
still support me. My mother supplies me with 19 vitamins and supplements I take
daily some of which were suggested by Paul Wakfer and Gary Tripp but she 
supplied the rest for many years before I became acquainted with Paul and Gary 
or even the Life Extensionist movement. She

did so not only because she is a nurse and able to research and understand the 
benefits but because it was natural for her with her life long Life Extensionist
Seventh Day Adventist beliefs. Some of you may recall meeting my step father 
who single handed, except for some help from Gary Tripp after we arrived, drove 
me to and cared for me at the Asilomar

conference. He took copious notes of all the lectures, not for me but for 
himself. He engaged in discussion and genuinely enjoyed learning every aspect. I
firmly believe if money were not the obstacle it is I could persuade much of my
family to use cryonics. They might do so for the afore mentioned reason of 
seeing the second coming they believe in or

simply to assuage my grief at their loss. After all it matters not to them as an
observance of faith being no different logically than heart resuscitation. They
would feel if it failed no matter they still have their belief in bodily 
resurrection. If it is successful then fine their god still awaits.

Now in anticipation of the discussions to come I wish to cover an issue that 
irks me. I have heard people accuse Seventh Day Adventists of being a cult. Now 
to me as an atheist, ALL religions are cults. However, being a little more 
reasonable and comparing religions to each other I wouldn't define a cult as 
having hospitals and colleges all over the

world. Perhaps those that promote this negative aspersion do so because SDA's 
won't lock step with the rest of the fundies. Perhaps it is because they don't 
shy away from pointing out the hypocrisies of their peer religions. Perhaps the 
peer protestant religions don't appreciate being held up to the standard the 
SDA's set. I don't know nor do I much

care. I just wanted to nip the cult issue in the bud. If Seventh Day Adventists 
are cultists then so are Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals and all the rest. BY
the way, the "Branch Davidians" of Waco massacre infamy are not and never were 
sanctioned by the official SDA church. In fact one of the major warnings 
preached by the church is the danger of
following "false prophets" such as David Koresh.

So Charles, given all I have explained, pray tell do please explain why the 
Seventh Day Adventists deserve your mocking judgment.

New quote for the day: "Judge not lest ye be judged and found wanting".

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