X-Message-Number: 16387
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 07:08:22 -0400
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: Misunderstanding
References: <>

CryoNet wrote:

> CryoNet - Wed 30 May 2001
>     #16384: You said the entire United States  [ramzy ramzy]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16384
> From: "ramzy ramzy" <>
> Subject: You said the entire United States
> Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 06:13:25 -0000
> James Swayze, you said in message #16376 with the title (Re: Racism and
> cryonics):
> (Ramzy, after reading the last cryonet issued post by you to my comments
> about Oregon and surrounding geography I can't help but get the impression
> this might be aimed at me. If so I don't understand why you would get the
> impression I was discouraging you from emigrating.)
> Your message is not the principal reason.
> I was exposed to direct racist messages from unknown from time to other,
> especially after every sending of some message to CryoNet and increased from
> short period ago without sending of messages. I did not write about these
> messages because they were not polite and far from CryoNet. In the last
> time, I thought that Oregon is the best place for me if I want to live in
> USA and asked members of CryoNet for their opinions about Oregon is the best
> place for cryonics. I was surprising when I read your comment. I remind you
> that what did you say exactly without summarizing: (This Super Volcano, by
> the way, even threatens Arizona by way of the fact it threatens the entire
> United States if not the whole world).
> Analysis:
> (Entire United States) does not equal the United States Northwest region,
> although you tried to deny in the two newest messages.
> (If not the whole world) means that you are not sure for rest of the world.
> Now, you like to change your opinions through the message #16370 (Welcome to
> America Ramzy):
> (Well I tend to ramble but I did so only because I was reminded of a
> discussion a
> while back about which was safer, in a city like Los Angeles or in the
> country.
> The discussion tended to revolve around the US southwest so where the super
> volcano is concerned neither is safe.)
> OK. You choose the US southwest now. I accept this modification if it ends
> the problem, but see to your message #16376 with the title (Re: Racism and
> cryonics) about profits of euthanasia in case of my life in Oregon:
> (However, it might, as long as the law remains, be a good place to
> voluntarily
> deanimate, for instance to stave off loss of identity from perhaps something
> incurable like mad cow disease, provided a cryonics team were on hand. But
> after
> that I'd say store the patient in a safer region. Oregon is, however, a
> beautiful place to live and emigrate to.)
> Why do you chose a disease, which can attack both cows and humans?
> It can attack you also.
> You can say that your message was not the principal reason for my message
> about the fear from racism in the future. It was the last droplet, which
> leaded to flow of the liquid outside the cup.
> Ramzy


I haven't changed anything nor denied anything. First of all your message 

#16324: cryonics before the death [ramzy ramzy] said nothing about you wanting 
come to the United States or Oregon. So how would I know or even guess that you
might want to emigrate so to try and say something to stop you? Here's what you

<Hi, all
<For the euthanasia in Oregon:
<Is Oregon the best place for Cryonics in US?

How in the world could I get from that any idea whatsoever that you wanted to
emigrate even if I did want to discourage you? Here we have a saying, "You're

barking up the wrong tree". It means you've gotten the wrong idea about me and 

making unnecessary noise about it. I'll explain later why this is even more so 

me. (Please read the last paragraph of this message) Now let's look at and 
what I replied with to your message quoted above:

My message read: (I live next door to Oregon and can research this)

This is me volunteering to help you research what you asked about. It's a 

intention. If I had wanted to discourage you I would not have volunteered to 

My message read: (but I can tell you right now nothing in Oregon legislation is

This is me telling what I know to be true. What I thought you were asking was, 
Oregon a good place to practice cryonics' (paraphrased). Well you don't, in my

opinion, practice cryonics properly without some facility so I assumed you were,
like we all do here, talking about a location for a cryonics facility much like
other discussions here in the past of country (as in 'out in the sticks' or
countryside) versus in the city.

My message read: (That particular law is under attack currently as is anything 
the conservatives don't like.)

Given my above assumption I am here warning that planning to put a facility here

could be a huge waste of money and as I want cryonics to work I don't wish to 

money wasted and so for the benefit of us all I will give my opinion if it can 
at all. Ask anyone here if they felt I was implying anything else.

My message read: (As an aside Oregon also has the worst record for funding

education so just as an indication of general character/attitude if education is

not a priority how will anything else requiring a good understanding of science 

opposed to say myth, fair any better? I'll not leave out the liberals either, 
which I count myself. Oregon has a high number of environmentalists and

environmentally concerned thinking runs high even amongst it's conservatives. 
is good to a point and I too am an environmentalist, however, it is so that too

many environmentalists are also deathists believing that death is a natural art 

the ecological cycle and also too many environmentalists are also a little on 
anti technology side. I on the other hand believe technology can save the

environment but this is not about me. Bottom line I think Oregon voters would be
resistant to legislation that favored cryonics as all its ramifications would
likely be misunderstood.)

This should speak for itself. Again going on the assumption you were wanting to

discuss the possibilities of a facility in Oregon I was giving my opinion, only,

how it might be recieved...what the chances, as I see them, might be for 

to be friendly or not to a cryonics facility or organization. Whether you wanted
live here or not never crossed my mind.

My message read: (On another note, Oregon is on the same San Andreas fault line 

California as is also Washington though neither are as popularly well known to 

as is California. Washington just recently had occur a not too modest earthquake

that anywhere else lacking progressive building codes would have been 

Oregon and Washington also contain a number of active volcanoes. There is also a
constant threat of forest fires.)

Here again assuming you are thinking of a facility, as in a cryonics 
complete with buildings to house patients, I am pointing out ALL the possible

hazards for it in Oregon. It would be remiss of me to leave any out. I mention 
surrounding areas because 'man made' borders don't protect from a nearby area's
disasters. What happens in California and Washington from natural disasters to
power outages and everything in between affects Oregon too.

My message read: (Lastly, the entire Northwest is a bit too close to the Super
Volcano that *is* the Yellow Stone National Park.)

This is just a logical progression. It is not going to far as you put it. It is
simply carrying the thought to it's logical ends. If local *smaller* volcanos
threaten the region, and I am concerned for the safety of potential facility

patients, then I had best say something about the *really big* one that is not 

far away from Oregon. How big the Super Volcano is and where it is has bearing 

the Oregon issue but because it is soooo big it affects even more. I don't know 
you know much about the Super Volcano at Yellowstone but it *does* threaten the

whole United States. In fact it *does* threaten the *whole world* but I was 

to hopeful. Scientists feel that when it goes off it will likely cause as much 

extinction as did the KT boundary incident that allegedly killed all the 

My message read: (This Super Volcano, by the way, even threatens Arizona by way 
the fact it threatens the entire United States if not the whole world and since

they believe it has a 600,000 year cycle and has been 600,000 years since it's 
blowup it then is overdue and all our plans may be moot.)

The phrase, "If not", is simply conversational english and a way to comfortably
bring into discussion another aspect of the subject. It was not any attempt to

My message read: (In conclusion, no, I do not think Oregon is a good candidate 
cryonics activities)

Just expressing my opinion here based on what I know about Oregon. This means 

the people might react, how the political climate and the political practices 
procedures might affect negatively a cryonics organization. I repeat I had no
thought that your question was about possible emigration.

My message read: (and certainly not for storage.)

All the natural dangers should speak for this.

My message read: (The progressive attitude that makes Oregon conducive to an
enlightened law concerning euthanasia, in my opinion, is more a comment on the

general prevailing 'New age' like sentiments tied closely to environmentalism 

it is a common sense science based attitude toward alleviation of suffering 

This is only trying to explain, so people can understand, how Oregon can on the 

hand have a law that on the surface seems conducive to cryonics (deanimation 

further degradation from disease) while on the other also hold views such as the
deathist environmentalist attitudes. By the way, I mention above (deanimation

before further degradation from disease) like I mentioned "Mad Cow" disease in 

later posts for the benefit of those here with differing opions about 

There was nothing sinister about mentioning the disease. This is an open forum. 
were'nt the only one expected to read the message.

Now as to my subsequent messages to you I was not changing my position. There is

nothing to change. I never intended my thoughtful appraisal of Oregon to 

you from emigrating because I had no idea that was even up for discussion. All I

have done is try to allay your misunderstanding which I feel stems from a slight

difference in our native languages. This is not racist either. I would expect to
have trouble with misunderstandings myself if I were to try reading the text of

another language not of my native tongue. So I urge you to get another opinion 

someone else, especially anyone form cryonet as to whether they thought my 

was to discourage you from emigration based upon racial bias. Please note that 

invitation for you to visit should you come to the Northwest was made in 

to your message title: #16354: Re: Oregon and cryonics [ramzy ramzy] which 

to me Sunday before I ever read your message titled: #16361: Racism [ramzy 

which arrived to me Monday a whole day later. My invitation for you to visit was

genuine and not made in response to any accusation made by you because I hadn't 

the pleasure yet of reading the second one regarding "racism". My invite was not
made to cover anything up.

Now I said I would explain why you are, "Barking up the wrong tree", by 
me of racism towards you. I don't know if you know this about me but I am a

quadriplegic. This means I am paralyzed from the upper chest down. Even my hands

are paralyzed although my arms can move enough to type. So what does this have 

do with racism and prejudice? Everything! You see, I get prejudiced by people of

own race and indeed even my own family!! I'll wager I've been mistreated by it 

than you or anyone and it's particularly abhorrent to be so from one's own race 
family. I'm curious, how do people treat the disabled in your country? Are they
shunned? Do crippled men get very many women? How about high paying jobs? Think

about this the next time you feel like accusing me of racism. The last thing on 
mind is putting onto others the same crap that is put onto me.

"From the point of ignition
To the final drive
The point of the journey
is not to arrive" --RUSH

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