X-Message-Number: 16591
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:41:40 -0400
From: Deathist Lurker Girl <>
Subject: Biblical advice for cryonicists ;-)
>Olaf Henny wrote:
>I don't really care a fig, what DLG's "real name" is. She has
>given us her pseudonym, and that is good enough for me. I
>respect her wish for anonymity. What I *DO* care about, is what
>she, a non-cryonicist but interested observer, thinks about
>cryonics.
>I can talk to myself for hours on end without learning anything
>new. It is similar to a degree, when the 'convinced' talk to the
>'committed'. If we want to get anywhere in terms of growth, we
>need contributions through thoughtful outside opinion.
Olaf has stated one of my main points with simple eloquence. It doesn't
matter who I am, since I am uncredentialed in any scientific discipline
pertaining directly to cryonics. It doesn't matter that I am a former
member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and a former
activist against that particular institution.
I feel I can speak for members of the general public who have had *some*
scientific education, *some* interest in the future of the human race
(and/or its "post-" or "trans-" human legacy).
Many people can wrap themselves in a cocoon of denial regarding the
inevitability of their own deaths (in the absence of an intervention such
as cryonic suspension, of course) by avoiding all contact with, and
discussion about death.
My chosen profession does not afford me this option- I see actively dying
people on an almost daily basis. Also, I have had the experience of being
widowed at age 23 after five years of marriage and the births of two
sons. This was in 1985, and I used to be an avid reader of Omni
magazine. I am not sure of the dates, and I believe I may have heard of
cryonics at that time, but I remember considering it a
redundancy. Why? Because at that time, I was deeply religious and was
sure that "God" was going to resurrect me, along with the rest of the human
race. Why would we need science to "save" us when our bodily restoration
was already assured?
I have not yet encountered anyone who, when diagnosed as "terminal" for
medical puposes (i.e. given a prognosis of 0-6 months of estimated
remaining life), has related that he or she has heard of "people being
frozen after they die" and inquired after information about that
procedure. If I did, I would definitely provide that person with contact
information for all cryonics companies currently in operation.
But here's another problem- from what I understand, those companies seem to
discourage the making of "last minute" arrangements for suspension. I
understand the arguments about legal and logistical problems, but in order
to appeal to a broader range of people, I believe some concessions to basic
human psychology should be made.
People are, by nature, procrastinators. I'll bet any one of you can name
off several friends- people who are otherwise intelligent, competent
individuals- who don't have life insurance, or who haven't written a
will. These are things that, by their very nature, emphasize the
inevitability of deanimation (regardless of whether or not one believes the
state to be permanent), and most people tend to put such unpleasantries off.
Could the system of cryopreservation be decentralized so that more of these
"last minute" cases could be accomodated? I believe so, but it would take
a great deal of mutual respect, trust, and communication between the
cryonics and non-cryonics ("deathist") communities.
I would urge signed-up cryonicists who are tempted to think in an "elitist"
fashion to remember that being signed up is only a first step to a
successful suspension. The manner and circumstances of your deanimation
will be of the utmost importance. If one lives in a planned community of
fellow cryonicists and never ventures away from home, this might be a moot
point; but I believe the majority of you like to have travel and
"adventure" in your lives
and therefore subject yourselves to conditions where you could deanimate
suddenly (as in a traffic accident or with the rupture of a cerebral
aneurysm) while in the company of non-cryonicists and away from suspension
facilities and personnel.
I forsee a time when hospital emergency rooms could have a protocol for the
handling of "DOA" patients or patients who die shortly after admission who
have a stated preference for cryonic suspension. Because hospital ER's can
be so busy and staffing so short, this might not include participation of
scheduled staff, but perhaps the allocation of an unused treatment room and
the calling in of trained volunteer staff.
It will likely be a long while before doctors will routinely ask a deceased
patient's next of kin,
"Burial, cremation, or cryonic suspension?" but the integration of cryonics
into medical care will be swifter as more cryonicists become mindful of the
need for mutual respect. There is a saying attributed to (a man whom I
believe to be a mythological character) one Jesus of Nazareth, who replied
to his disciples as they complained about a "copycat" miracle-worker,
"Whoever is not against us is for us. For truly I tell you, whoever gives
you a cup of water to drink because you bear the name of Christ will by no
means lose the reward." -Mk 9:40, 41 (NSRV)
I read the bible, as well as other religious works, because although I
consider them largely fictional, such works are not incapable of conveying
wisdom. If you are a signed-sealed-but-yet-to-be-delivered cryonicist,
don't open your mouth to make enemies out of people who are trying to be
your friends. Once the lights go out behind your eyes, you are no longer
capable of controlling your own destiny. Advance arrangements are good,
but not solid guarantees. There might be several links in the chain that
takes you from the scene of your death to your (hopefully not final)
resting place in a dewar at LN temperatures. And some of the most vital
links in that chain might turn out to be be "mentally ill" deathists. Like me.
DLG
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16591