X-Message-Number: 16603 From: "Trygve Bauge" <> References: <000e01c0f8bf$d8a66780$> Subject: Cost estimate of establishing a small cryonic storage facility. Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 16:56:47 +0200 Cost of establishing a small cryonics facility in Norway, a rough estimate. All prices in US dollars. This estimate is made for Elizabeth Kostadinova, so she has something to compare with when calculating what it would cost to have her father stored in Australia, but might be of interest to others at the Cryonet too I call upon all cryonisists to recalculate this budget, with the actual costs in their own country. 1.Renting a place for the dewar. If one can rent 2 square meters of space from some other outfit (industrial site or farmer), then this could be as low as US dollar 200 a year, if one has to rent a larger facility this might cost as much as $ 100 or more/square meter a year, or easily $ 5,000 a year for a 35 square meter facility. 2.Buying a 4 person dewar from MVE or Taylor Wharton, this costs about $ 16,000 - $ 20,000 and up, plus shipping, plus taxes (In Norway there is a value added tax of 24 %, that might be waved for funeral expenses, ) These dewars have to be specially ordered and are not available off the shelf. 3.Shipping the cryotank to Norway, I do not have a price estimate for this yet, but it might easily cost a few thousand dollars and take a month. (Plus the time of having it ordered and built.) 4.Liquid Nitrogen, a big foot tank with a boiloff rate of 14-15 liters a day would consume about 5400 liters a year or 900 liters every 2 months. In the United States liquid nitrogen sells for as low as 12 cents a liter or 20-30 cents a liter for the quantities we are speaking about here, in Norway such small quantities that we are speaking of here would be more expensive, and again we might have the 24 % value added tax that possibly could be waved. We are looking at prices of about 1 dollar a liter or $ 5,000 a year. 5.The cost of freezing and storing him in Australia until a facility is ready to receive him. (As a comparison it cost about $ 670 a month in dry ice and labour costs to have my grandfather stored in Colorado.) 6.The cost of shipping in the body from Australia by airfraight, might easily be 4,000 dollars including renting and shipping a travel casket and returning this, and packing in dry ice. 7.To pick up the body at the airport and to place the body into the dewar takes a lift and some assistance, estimate at least $1000-$2000 or more. 8.Then there is the cost of refilling the liquid nitrogen every 2 months. Labour cost at $ 20 or more an hour for 1 worker, at 4 hours a time. about $ 500 to $ 1,000 a year or more. 9. And finally there is the cost of keeping a watchful eye on the dewar, for years to come. So basically we are faced with an initial expense of $ 20,000 or more for the dewar. more likely $ 25,000 inclusive shipping. plus possibly another 6,000 in value added tax. You have the cost of freezing him (e.g. exhuming him, freezing him and storing him locally until a facility can be set up elsewhere that can receive him, and then the cost of packing him in dry ice in a travel box,). Then we have the cost of shipping him in for about $ 4,000. Including renting a travel box, shipping this to Australia, using it to ship him elsewhere and later returning the travel box (e.g. to England). Then the cost of picking him up at the airport and moving him to the cryonic dewar, and placing him in this. About $ 2,000 Then the annual cost of storage room, liquid nitrogen, refilling the liquid nitrogen and keeping an eye on the place, Preliminary overview, a more exact overview will follow in a few days as soon as I get the exact figures from those companies I have called. $ 20,000-$30,000 for Dewar shipped in. $ 4,000 or more for having him exhumed and stored on dry ice a few months in Australia until a facility is ready to receive him. $ 4,000 for shipping him in. $ 2,000 and up for picking him up at the airport and placing him in the dewar. ----- Subtotal easily $ 30,000 or more in one time expenses. --- Then the annual expenses $ 200-1,000 or more in room rental. $ 5,000 a year in liquid nitrogen $ 500 a year in labor refilling liquid nitrogen. $ 500 a year in looking after the dewar. ---- Easily $ 7000 a year, (which is about what we pay each year to have my grandfather stored on dry ice in Colorado.) With value added tax of 24% it is even more expensive, but I will soon know if that can be waved. The bigfoot can take 4 people, so one could possibly split the above cost on 4 people, without any added annual maintenance cost. Each person would have 1/4 of the dewar cost and 1/4 of the annual cost, and in addition the cost of beeing frozen elsewhere and of being shipped in and being picked up at the airport and placed in the dewar. If anyone else would like to join in establishing a facility, or in buying a share of a dewar here in Norway or in Australia, please get in touch. I have already contacted a few people here in Norway and Sweden that might be interested. At the same time I found out that Svein Hindal died more than a year ago. His mother is stored at CI, and he apparently failed to take the proper steps to be preserved himself. I have suspected this for quite some time, but after 20 phone calls today I finally got it verified. Sincerely, Trygve Bauge ----- Original Message ----- From: elizabeth kostadinova. To: Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 2:59 PM Subject: ELIZABETH KOSTADINOVA. DEAR TRYGEV , I EMAIL YOU, A FEW DAYS AGO AS TO WHAT I AM DOING , AND WERE I AM AT,AND UP TOO, REALLY NOWHERE AND ARE STILL THINKING ABOUT USING MY OWN RESOURCES,BEFORE IT SREALLY TOO, LATE,FOR MY FATHER, RECEIVED YOUR EMAIL ABOUT YOU LOOKING IN NORWAY FOR ME ,LET ME KNOW IF YOU CAN PROVIDE A STORAGE FACILTY AND EXCEPT POSSIBLE THE BODY ,AS I THINK I WANT TO IF APPROVED FROM HUMAN SERVICES HERE IN AUSTRALIA PUT A MEMORIAL OR BURIEL GROUND IN MY HOUSE, OR FIND ANOTHER HOUSE TO GET BETTER APPROVAL IN AUSTRALIA, TO GET MY FATHER WITH US AT HOME, OTHERWISE I THOUGHT ABOUT GOING BACK TO OUR HOME LAND, IN EUROPEAND MAKEING BURIEL ARRANGEMENT THERE,.MAY-BE,NOTSURE...... MAYBY I CAN GO THERE TO LIVE FOR A FEW YEAR I AM NOT SURE AND HAVE NOT DECIDED, OTHER WISE I WILL BE LOOKING HERE AT LOCAL CEMERTARY, TO INSPECT ON MOSULUEMS,OR MAYBY A GLASS CRYPT,BUT WILL HAVE TO VISIT AND GET FURTHER INFO, AS THIS MOMENT I AM AT A LOSS TO KNOW WHAT TO DO,AND JUST ARE AWAITNG TO HERE ALL MY OPTION TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO, PLEASE LET ME KNOW ABOUT WHETHER THERE, IS A CHANCEI CAN FIND STORQAGE IN NORWAY AS AN OPTION, AS I THINK NOBODY HERE WILL OFFER STORAGE FACILTYIN AUSTRALIA FOR THIS TYPE OF REQUEST,. OR THING, THE ONLY OPTION IS FOR ME TO ONLY STORE THE BODY,ONMY PROPERTY,,IF GOVERMENT LALLOWS IT, THAT I THINK IS THE BEST OPTION THE FAMILY IS HAPPY WITH BUT NEEDS TO WAIT FORAPPROVAL A,THANK-YOU FOR HELP IN FINDING LOCAL IN AUSTRALIA CRYONICISTS ,I STILL AWAITING FOR 1 TO GET BACK TO ME ,I WILL GET BACK TO YOU ABOUT MY PROGRESS, , IN A COUPLE OF DAY,, THANKS GOODBYE FOR NOW. ELIZABETH KOSTADINOVA. 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