X-Message-Number: 16674
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 01:17:27 +0000 ()
From: Louis Epstein <>
Subject: Replies to CryoNet #16641 - #16658

On 24 Jun 2001, CryoNet wrote:

> Message #16641 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:05:16 +0200
> For years I have hoped that someone in the cryonics movement would buy a
> freezer, set up a laboratory for tissue cultivation and offer to freeze live
> cell samples, for future cloning.

Doesn't CI do that?
I recall George Smith saying he has
tissue samples of his family and
pets stored there. 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16643 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> Subject: Cryonics an expensive way of slowing the rotting of corpses.
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 14:20:09 +0200
> Liquid nitrogen storage is basically a way of postponing the rotting of
> the corpse.

Is there any way that preserves
the body better?
That is the question if not rotting
is your goal.(Cost and maintenance
also have to be considered). 

> In order to assist you,  I had to break up with my girl friend that I
> have had for the last 5 years. She was vehemently opposed to me actively
> attempting to freeze more dead corpses. 

She thought you no longer
cared about cryonics?

> ---------------------------------------
> Message #16644 From: 
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 08:36:21 EDT
>   Well of course we're probably all living in a simulation. Every inhabited 
> universe has zillions of simulations with only one "real" level, so the odds 
> are huge that you're in a simulation. And the simulations have simulations
> in them, so you're probably ten levels down.

I just don't see the evidence for 
this claim.On what theory or
observation is it based?
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16646 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 08:08:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Driven FromThePack <>
> It seems to be that in order for us to maximize our
> chances of a good cryopreservation, we should form a
> cryonics community.
> Since most of us here are with Alcor, I would propose
> that this community be located in Arizona, possibly
> north of Phoenix; the climate is nice there.
> I would propose that we form an entity such as a
> housing cooperative, which could buy land in AZ and
> develop it much more cheaply than could one person by
> him/herself.
Um,doesn't this sound exactly
like the Prescott-area site that
David Pizer and the Venturists
are developing(Ventureville)
that he recently posted on the
progress of?

A resort and a housing community
for cryonicists?

If you want to add something not
in his game plan,it would have
to be a cryonics facility onsite
(you could buy land right near
Ventureville),since he sees
difficulties in the housing and
the storage facility being together.
But since your appeal is to Alcor,
I gather that's not in your plan

> ---------------------------------------------------- 
> Message #16647 Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 10:07:11 -0500
> [From Iggy Dybal]
> Americans bombed Japan with two A-Bombs? That were civilians, or as McVeigh
> put it, "collateral damage." Does this most recent example bring it any
> closer to you? Did the American government need to sacrifice 150,000 or so
> of civilians for 30,000-50,000 American lives? Pure "human math" here.

Well,your own assumption of the
number of American lives saved can
never be more than an assumption,
and others have much higher estimates.

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16648 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> Subject: Trygve's response to Charles Platt
> I was deported from the United States on May the 7th 1994 after having
> lived 14 years in the United States without a passport, visa or
> greencard, and after having fought for freedom of travel and trade in
> the federal court system for 6 years.

Quixotic...surely you must realize
that no state can survive without the
ability to control who is allowed to
cross its borders.Or are you anti-state
in your worldview?

> -------------------------------------
> Message #16652 From: 
> Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 13:17:29 EDT
> Subject: oldest, youngest
> Someone asked about the oldest and youngest cryonics patients at time of 
> death.

> The oldest CI patient was 100. We have not yet frozen any children, but there
> is a current possibility with an ailing infant of under a year. For obvious 

> reasons, most of our patients have been and will be old people (but of course
> still extremely young people in a future perspective).

Are there legal problems that would
be caused by freezing a minor?
It does seem a definite possibility
to me,especially if there were any
disagreement between the child's
parents.Even if not,other relatives
might try to obstruct preservation.

Has any other provider frozen

> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16658 From: "john grigg" <>
> Subject: recent thoughts regarding Epstein...
> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 00:07:19 
> I notice you read the Deseret News which of course is from Utah.  Are you
> a fellow Mormon?  Or simply someone raised around the church who is very
> aware of it's history and doctrines?

Neither...as I believe I've
told you,I am someone raised
at some distance from the Church
who studies its hierarchy closely
with an academic interest.(The
DesNews is on the web,now!).
Any framework that is designed
to grant supreme power based
purely on seniority and is regarded
as an inalterable divine revelation
is a model for the gerontocracy
(ideally stable and prosperous)
that is the best societal form
for immortalism.

> If the church teachings are correct then you can look forward to an earth 
> ruled by Jesus Christ where gays have been changed or are in some form of 
> benevolent treatment to alter their orientation.  If not, then you may not 
> want to sign up for cryonics because you may wake up into a "Planet of the 
> Gays" scenario! lol


What maximizes my chances of
outlasting them all?And of
their not outlasting me??

(There are people from Jesse
Helms to Robert Mugabe to Mullah
Mohammed Omar who I certainly
want to live into a future without).

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