X-Message-Number: 16681
From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
References: <>
Subject: Trygve's reply to Ramzy, Re: doors of the history
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:29:41 +0200

"ramzy ramzy" <>


> Hi, Trygve Bauge
> In the start, I do not look forward to cryonics for some buried person.
> Also, I do not look forward to cloning in case of failure of cryonics in
> future.

Have you considered that wide spread use of cloning and improvements to
cloning might lead to improvements in cryonics too? e.g. tisssue cloning
could lead to better repair of frozen bodies.

>My email is a result of your desire to build other full service
> provider in Norway and your problem with buying of LN2 with cheap prices.

The problem is not so much with the price of liquid nitrogen, That price is
now 70 cents (US) per liter here in Norway (And 1/5 less if we get the value
added tax refunded, which is likely since there is no value added tax on
other burrial forms in Norway.)
The price is also likely to go down within 4 years when the first clean
burning gas power plant is completed here in Norway.
Anyway as soon as we get a few dewars it will be cost effective to buy a
small mobile liquid nitrogen plant and run this off a local cogenerating
hydroelectric power plant.

Our problem is rather the fact that neither Alcor nor Trans time has
responded, to my question as to the names and addresses to contact to buy
similar dewars that they have bought.
(So let me ask again for the names on those that built and sold them their
liquid nitrogen dewars?)

We can get around this problem by buying an electrical freezer from Harris
manufacturing or a soft vacum box like those used at CI.

> I know that the cryogenic liquid is not everything in cryonics because
> is other problem (a special protocol for cryoprotectants) for every
> provider. Take this question:
> 1- What is the scientific field for the person who determines this
> I predict this answer: cryobiology. Is it right for you or the other
> organizations in USA? If it is false, then what is the right answer?
> 2- Why is not there any cryonics service in U.K. although there are many
> cryonicists there?
> I noted that there is no common protocol for cryoprotectants in
> cryopreservation in the different American companies. Then, any European
> cryobiologist can suggest a new protocol and train the people without the
> need to the training in USA. The efficiency will be improved with the
> experience. Perhaps, the answer for my question: there is no person in UK
> who is cryobiologist and cryonicist in the same time, but I am not sure if
> my prediction for the answer is right or not?
> In the end, You can enter history of cryonics if you build other full
> service provider for cryonics outside USA, but I hope that you enter from
> the right door far from the Australian case.

My entry into cryonics has been 30 years before the Australian case.
I have been adamant in favour of cryonics since I first read about Trans
Time in the late nineteen sixties or early nineteen seventies.
I even tried unsuccessfully to talk Leonard Peikoff into freezing Ayn Rand
within hours of her death.
He threatened to call the police on me.

< This leads to the third
> question:
> 3- Why did not you write (in CryoNet) about your desire to build other
> service provider before the Australian case?
> Ramzy

My interest in building a life-extension center goes far back to the mid
nineteen seventies.

While on the board of directors of Trans Time in 1990/91 I even drew up
several plans for an earthquake proof, fire proof, storm proof and even
nuclear war proof cryonics facility.
The board finally decided to upgrade their present facility instead. I
understand they have since moved.
They could have had a state of the art facility and tourist attraction,
instead they apparently are not that big a storage provider any more.

I then built a small residence, club cabin and cryonics storage facility in
Colorado, using the same technology.

I have over the years, so far unsuccessfully tried to get Bill Faloon
interested in using the same technology for his planned cryonics facility.
So once again: Bill if you use the vaulted thin shell reinforced concrete
technology from Formworks in Durango, http://www.formworksbuilding.com/
 you would get a much stronger structure, and have to spend far less on
concrete retaining walls and on concrete than your recent double wall box
structure design calls for.

Here in Norway I have taken entrepreneurship classes and enrolled in a
venture plan competition
two years in a row now. I will participate next year as well, with an
improved venture plan for how to set up a nuclear war proof life-extension
center, that will offer cryonic storage as well as be a health building
retreat and hospice. The idea is to try to restore peoples health, and when
that fails, to freeze them
(or at least to freeze the cryonisists among them).

Last fall my plans for a Norwegian cryonic facility was covered by a 4
minute prime time TV segment on our largest national TV station. This spring
it was covered by one of our largest monthly periodicals for men.

I am going ahead with these plans independent of the Australian case.
But having been in Elizabeth's situation myself once, or almost there, I
have decided to see what I can do.
So far I haven't taken any money from her at all (she has offered money
several times), and I won't take any either until I am sure that I actually
can do something worthwhile for the amount to be spent.


Trygve Bauge

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