X-Message-Number: 16721
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:51:53 +0000 ()
From: Louis Epstein <>
Subject: Replies to CryoNet #16696 - #16697

On 26 Jun 2001, CryoNet wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------
> Message #16696 Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:46:25 -0700
> From: Lee Corbin <>
> Dave writes,
> >You must understand boredom in a different way than I do....I do not think 
> >boredom is built in to our bodies in such a similar way (if at all).  The 
> >drive for food or sex is a physical, mechanical, concrete thing.  Boredom 
> >is an abstract way of describing how you feel when nothing excites you. 
> It's just that we should decide whether we want to be excited by
> something, not leave it up to chance or our genes or conditioning.
> Yes, it will be pretty weird to have the "excitement" knob within
> reach; and I assume that I'd have mine turned up pretty high most
> of the time.  It indeed would take some getting used to.

I think it fairly intrinsic to excitement
that it is effective by being intermittent.
If it is your usual state you will treat
it as "feeling normal"..

Cycles of excitement and relaxation are
normal.You can not sustain yourself at a
peak and have it still be a peak...there
has to be a relative increase compared
to other experiences.

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16697 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> >Charles Platt <> wrote:
> >
> >> From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> >
> In Norway the next of kin has presedence over the newly diseased own
> expressed will!!!
> My grandfather had planned to be cremated, but we had no problems
> freezing him anyway. Thus from a cryonic point of view it is very
> important for cryonisists to select or instruct next of kin properly or
> to donate one's body to someone that will maintain it cryonically!

Norwegian burials are for term rather
than perpetual.(In the USA,or at least
in New York,cemeteries may only make
one perpetual charge,not recurring
charges).In Norway you have to renew
your ancestors' grave "rental" or they
will be dug up and the grave reallocated.

My mother's mother was upset to find that
her brother had not paid for their father's
grave when she was here for a visit,and
he was disinterred.My mother's mother was
later cremated and buried with her mother
in the cemetery in Bergen.My mother wants
to be cremated and have her ashes join them;
and as long as I live,and I have no
intention of dying,I will have to keep
paying the Kirkeavdeling periodically to
keep them from being dug up.

> What can be done with a dead long burried corpse?
> It can be stored, some people like to maintain their dead relatives,
> witness all the people that pay a lot for the best possible embalming.

Certainly I think that the
preservation of a body is
the whole point of any effort
to bury or freeze or mummify
it...if not,why not just
toss the deceased on the
compost heap?

(Of course,this is thought a
good idea by the cardboard-coffin
> How much has to be restored and how much can just be copied in, for it
> to still be the same person, or for it to be an actual continuation of the 
> same consciousness and not just a clone thinking that it is the original?

If the new body is separate and distinct 
from the original body,not a repair of
it,then it is not the original and
should be aware if the difference.
> >> At the existing cryonics providers there seem to be a prevailing attitude,
> >> that if one can't freeze a person under the most ideal circumstances, then
> >> one should rather let the person rot.
> >
> >The purpose of cryonics is to provide some chance of restoring life, 
> >with personality and preferably memories intact;  and if this chance is
> >generally agreed (even by the most optimistic nanotech enthusiast) to be
> >zero, the organization has no excuse for taking people's money, and can
> >rightly be accused of fraud.

Some of the wilder-eyed singularitarians
seem to think that absolutely everybody
who ever lived can be restored.

> My goal is individual life-extension to the highest possible degree,
> Though I would prefer not to die,
> and would prefer to be frozen under ideal circumstances when I die,
> I would still prefer to be brought back without memory, rather than not
> to be brought back at all, I would still want to be cloned, 
> and to have regular kids too.
> I kind of like the idea that there will be a clone that will experience
> itself to be a continuation of me, and that as far as others are
> concerned, for all practical purposes will be me.

So a clone that was clearly aware 
that it was your clone would not
be an idea that you would like?
(Even if it had access to your
life experiences?)

Born in an era when the original
you was long past history,what
others would think it was that
you having survived through time
you never saw?

> Are you refering to my pictures from the construction steps in the
> house I built or my designs for life-extension centers than can be
> built with similar technology?
> then I suggest people visit Trygve's Meta Portal www.trygve.bauge.com
> and think for themselves.

If they use Lynx as a browser,
this doesn't work...one gets
menu pages that link to each other
and say to click here if they
don't open,but never let you into
the substantive content of the

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