X-Message-Number: 16725
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 18:51:35 +1000
From: Simon Carter <>
Subject: Re: Trygve's response to Simon (#16703) 

Hi Trygve,

> If you know any other Melbourne cryonisists , please let me know
> of where to contact these.

I understand you (and 'Elizabeth') have already contacted some of the
cryonicists in Australia, in particular Melbourne, and that they have
chosen not to respond or suggested that this is not a case with which
they wish to be involved.

Yes, I know all the cryonicists in Melbourne but am unable to provide
you with their contact details without their express permission. You
should know that sveral of us have recently discussed the case via email
with none of those participating wishing to be involved. In summary, our
consensus was that this is a hopeless case, likely to lead to grief for
all involved and continuing sorrow. The possibility that 'Elizabeth' has
ulterior motives is also a concern.


> Elizabeth called me early on and spoke to me for about one hour
> on the phone.
> 
> She has sent me an e-mail, address and phone number.

Thanks for the info. Are you not concerned? You hint of having
suspicions.


> (the address seems a little fishy, and some of her letters
> look like she has copied in paragraphs from others, maybe
> based on e-mails from other cryonisists.)

Well, I don't buy cutting and pasting as a reason for improvement in
'her' written English skills. Its just too good and too sudden. I cite
the email at the end of your post: http://www.cryonet.org/archive/16683

... and 'she' even found out how to turn off the caps lock in that one!

... and at the end of this one: http://www.cryonet.org/archive/16687
(its back to form with the capitalisation but the
English is markedly better than the earlier efforts)


> Otherwise she appeared more calm, sincere and straightforward
> than many other distressed people pursuing post mortem
> suspensions that I have spoken to over the years.

The calm seems in contrast to many of 'her' emails.


> Many seems to lie about when their relative died and what
> he or she died from.
> Elizabeth volunteered herself, in our very first conversation
> that her father had died several months prior.

Now I'm getting confused! Trygve, are you are accusing 'Elizabeth' of
"lying"? That's my job, mate!

I've been perusing the archives tho' and think I know what you are
saying. 'Elizabeth', despite numerous requests from several people was
quite unwilling to provide detail about 'her' supposed father's death. I
recall a date in early June being mentioned at first (but don't have the
time to search right now - is this correct?). However in
http://www.cryonet.org/archive/16498 you state that her supposed father
died in March: "Seems like her 58 year old father died of cancer on
March the 19th. And has been burried since then." 

So just what is going on here? Just when did Daddy supposedly die?


> She has repeatedly asked me to give her an account number that she
> can pay in money on, something I have not yet done.

I have noticed 'her' anxiety, nay insistence, on getting your account
number and advise caution (I particularly refer to the two emails
above). If 'Elizabeth' is a journalist what happens then? "GOTCHA!:
Money grubbing body freezers try cheating grieving daughter out of life
savings?" Please Trygve, you may be safe in Norway but there are a bunch
or cryonicists in Australia who do not need that sort of attention. Your
desire to set up a cryonics facility may be well intended but the
history of cryonics indicates that such facilities need to be supported
by a decent sized and committed organisation to have any long term
chance of survival.


> All my services so far has been free of charge and done from
> good will.

I'm not doubting that. I am saying that you could end up looking foolish
and damaging the cause of cryonics in Australia and elsewhere.

Wouldn't it be better to concentrate on your longer term goal of helping
others to set up a European facility rather than spend effort on this
case?


> So far I have posted her name and e-mail address to the cryonet.
> I could post her phone number and regular address, 
> if she has no objection to this.

I think several of us would be interested. Strangely 'Elizabeth' has not
responded to either myself or Veronica Sullivan's request for further
information regarding herself:

HERE I AM 'ELIZaBEHT': RIHGHT HEREON THE GROUNDIN AUSTRLIA. I KNOW (FACE
TO FACE) ALL THE MELBRNE CRYONIICISTS AND MST OFTHE REST IN THE
COUNNTRY. WHERE ARE YOU, WHO ARE YOU, AND WHEENDIDd YOUR FATHER DIE?  I
ASSUnME TRYGVE HAS FORWARDED MY EmAIL OF YESTERDAY
HTTP://WWW.CRYONET.ORG/ARCHIVE/16699 AND I'D LIKE A RESPONSE.


> It is my impression that she had contacted Alcor and had been turned
> down by these before I heard of her.

It is Alcor's right to choose whether to take non-members. You are
surely aware of the risk of doing so and respect their right?


> I have not yet verified her wherabouts or if she can afford
> what she claims, An established cryonics provider would of
> course do that as its first step.

I'm not sure of your point here Trygve. I think you badly need to verify
her wherabouts, at the very least.

...
...


> I have been in touch with the Australian consulate in Norway,
> so that they can assist Elizabeth, once I am ready to organize
> a facility, I will ask the Norwegian consulate in Australia
> and a local bank to assist in veryfing what it is of
> value to verify, before signing any contract.

Mate, maaate, take it from me: I've never found the buggers to be of any
use. Help from an Australian embassy or consulate? Sheeesh!!

Look, thanks again for being upfront regarding what 'Elizabeth' has told
you but I think I've made my opinion quite clear. While I'll read your
reply please don't expect me to engage in a daily exchange for long.

Long life,

Simon

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