X-Message-Number: 16735
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:42:38 +0000 ()
From: Louis Epstein <>
Subject: Replies to CryoNet #16708 - #16713

On 27 Jun 2001, CryoNet wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16708 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> >Louis Epstein <>
> >
> >> Message #16643 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> >>  
> >> Liquid nitrogen storage is basically a way of postponing the rotting of
> >> the corpse.
> >
> >Is there any way that preserves the body better?That is the question if 
> >not rotting is your goal.(Cost and maintenance also have to be considered). 
> Fish apparently is still fresh and edible after being stored two years
> burried in a moore, according to recent research at a Norwegian research
> station.There is probably some damage, but not to its tast and edibility.

Not sure what you mean by a "moore".

And are taste and edibility indicators
of the preservation of the body in
the state-at-death,especially in terms
of preserving the brain's functionality?

Salmon and scallop mousse are tasty
and edible,but a long way from live
salmon and scallops.

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message #16710 From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
> Subject: Re the need to protect the borders.
> Someone claimed

I was the someone.

> that to exist a country needs to have control over its
> borders.EU (with the exception of Ireland and reat Britain) has
> removed the internal border restrictions and this does not threaten any
> of the nations involved.

On the contrary,the "EU" is a grave
threat to the nations involved,which
it is corrosively absorbing.Next year
the mark,franc,lira,guilder,peseta,
and other currencies will disappear.

> It is a difference between on one hand the ability to stop military
> attacks, and on the other hand protectionist harassment of tourists and
> job seekers and job creating entrepreneurs.
> We shouldn't confuse the need for a military defence with any need for
> customs tax and customs restrictions.

Not sure what difference you see.
If you have no control over who
crosses the borders,whether they
are armed invaders,casual tourists,
or supposed casual tourists planning
an armed takeover once they've brought
enough weapons over to their sympathizers
in their unexamined baggage makes no

> No doubt Ventureville and Alcor would both have been a greater success
> if European cryonisists like myself and Thomas Nord, freely could have
> settled in New Mexico.

Not if this were limited to
New Mexico and you couldn't
get over to Arizona.
> ------------------------------------
> Message #16712 From: 
> The main question, hardly ever truly addressed by the philosophers, is
> how to  arrive at a scientific value system, and most of the traditional
> criteria are  irrelevant. Only two things really matter--biology and math.

As good a time as any to invoke
Hertzlinger's Law of Circular Science.

Physics is based on mathematics.
Mathematics is based in logic.
Logic is based on philosophy.
Philosophy is based on psychology.
Psychology is based on biology.
Biology is based on chemistry.
And chemistry is based on physics!

> -------------------------------------
> Message #16713 From: 
> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:15:59 EDT
> Subject: new unit in service
> The first out-sourced cylindrical fiberglass cryostat is now in service at 
> CI, with five patients in it. It can hold one more.

Why was it used for patients now?
I recall an earlier posting when it
was ordered,and I think CI has
frozen only one patient since.
Were patients moved from other
units?...and was there a reason
why this unit was better than the
> We'll report the boil-off when the permanent top is finished and everything 
> settles down, but my current guess is 5 or 6 liters per patient per day. 
> These are not the world's most thermally efficient units, but they are the 
> most rugged and reliable, and easiest to repair if that should ever be 
> necessary.

This outsourced cylinder represents
a departure from the larger(10 and
14 body,for example) in-house-built
oblong units.

As I recall it was earlier said that
this was because the demands on staff
time were too great to build more now.
Are the new units a technical advance,
or a make-do effort?

I know you're disengaged from daily
operations,but I'm curious about the
technical decisions here.

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