X-Message-Number: 16761
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:25:36 -0400
From: fair4us <>
Subject: Re: Cryonet #16753 &  #16755, Mike Darwin Etc.

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Olaf Henny thinks that there is no difference between LEF's and Mike 
Darwin's positions on Vitamin C.  I think Olaf overlooked that Mike was 
discussing both Vitamin C supplementation by a living person, and use of 
the substance in cryopreservation.  LEF's article cited in my prior post 
tries to rebut a recent scientific study regarding the former.  Mike seems 
to side with that study.

In my prior post, I was hoping to elicit from Mike or whomever, further 
insight regarding that issue.  If Vitamin C megadoses indeed produce artery 
thickening and rampant radicals, I am personally concerned, but need to be 
convinced.  I, too, have been appreciative and in awe of Saul & Bill's 
efforts over the years as enumerated by Mike, and have purchased vitamins 
from LEF.  One "serving" of LEF's Life Extension Mix has 2605 mg of Vitamin 
C, over 10 times the maximum recommended by Mike, and I have further 
supplemented by as much as 5000 mg/day.  How soon am I going to die?

A few remarks regarding Mike's #16755:

 >The following points need to be made and made emphatically:
 >1) I do not know who Fair4us is, does anyone else?

I don't know what the point is, or why it should be emphatic.  Does it 
matter who I am, and would/should you respond to my post any differently if 
you knew?  As simply as I can put it, I am just a person who prefers to 
remain anonymous on the net, since these postings are archived forever for 
public view.  I am among many on Cryonet, as is evident from recent 
postings.  I'm interested in cryonics and related life extension issues, or 
I wouldn't be here.  I like to find out what is really going on about such 

 >2) I have never worked for the Life Extension Foundation or for Bill Faloon
 >or Saul Kent. With both great pride and gratitude I have worked for a number
 >of organizations which LEF has supported including the Alcor Life Extension
 >Foundation, 21st Century Medicine and Critical Care Research. In some cases
 >LEF was the major supporter of these organizations, but in no case was LEF
 >"the boss," or, for that matter the only significant investor or contributor.

OTOH, somebody at LEF thinks they own 21st Century Medicine.  To 
quote:  "In 2000...At The Foundation's 21st Century Medicine research 
laboratory, a breakthrough in organ preservation methods should enable 
exponentially greater numbers of successful heart and kidney transplants to 
occur."  This is from 
http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/track2.html.  This would lead me, the 
lay reader, to conclude that at a minimum LEF is the major stockholder, but 
since 21st is privately held, I can't verify it (remarkably similar to CI's 
apparent difficulties in assessing 21st's products).

 >3) In the approximately 20 years I have been involved with Saul Kent and 

I see my post inspired a lengthy treatise on this subject, which I'm sure 
benefitted many folks who wondered why you are no longer with 21st and what 
your present stance towards them is.  It was more along that line than I 
was looking for, but the insights are appreciated.  I was and still am 
hoping for more insight regarding the personal consumption of Vitamin C 
megadoses; input from you, LEF scientists, and anyone else, would be of 
interest.  The relationship of that issue to cryonics is that we might 
present the best quality specimen possible for cryopreservation.

 >7) I can only conclude that whoever Fair4us is s/he is either uniformed,
 >grossly irresponsible, a pernicious liar, or all of the above.

OUCH!  The "old" Mike returns!  Take your Prozac!  (just kidding).  I will 
admit to being uninformed, which is why I asked the questions.  The other 
adjectives are apparent defensive projections from the way I worded some 
things; did not mean to confuse; just the inherent nature of "modem chat" 
at work.

 >So, if Fair4us wants to be fair, he should point the finger at me, not at
 >Bill, Saul, or LEF.

Not my intention to point fingers.  All of you have done and are still 
doing great things for cryonics.  I'd just like to hear more about the 
Vitamin C megadose issue, and if the studies are not clear, I'd hope 
somebody follows through in clearing the issues up.


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