X-Message-Number: 16775 From: "Trygve Bauge" <> References: <001901c101fb$9e0f33a0$> Subject: Re: REGARDING GETTING EXHUMATION AND PAPER WORK DON IMMEDIATELY,. Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:10:15 +0200 To Elizabeth, I have called about 10 different government offices. I should know Monday or Tuesday, what paper work, if any that is required by the Norwegian government, for me to receive your father for storage here. I could send you a standard contract proposal, but that proposal is of course dependent upon that we also meet all paperwork required by the Norwegian government. The important steps to take at your end is: a) To find out what family members that have to give their approval in order for an exhumation to take place.(In Norway it is just the nearest kin that has a say in the matter) But you should check what the law is in Australia. Maybe the law down there requires the approval of you and your sister too, and not just the approval of your mother? b)You should talk things over with your mother. If she is the one that has the legal say, you will have to ask her if she will approve the exhumation, freezing, export and storage of your father, or if she will sign over to you, the right to decide in these matters. c)You have to prove to me what you can afford to do without going bancrupt and without getting economically distressed. E.g. What cash do you have on hand, what else do you own, what will the bank lend you on this. And what do you want to spend of what you can afford to spend. Basically you have to go to the bank and get this to verify what you can afford. and then send me a copy of the verification, by express 2 day mail. My address is Trygve Bauge, pob. 59 Hovseter, N-0705, Oslo, Norway. I can foresee 3 alternatives: Option A) Full body suspension including exhumation, freezing, transport, renting a facility here, setting up a dry ice box, and buying a bigfoot dewar, is expensive. This could easily run into initial expenses of about USD 35.000 to 45,000 plus monthly expenses for facility rental, liquid nitrogen and caretaking of about total USD 1,000 a month. The monthly expenses would of course be less as soon as the facility gets more clients. (As a comparison C.I. (the company in Michigan that didn't want to store your father) charges USD 35,000 for post mortem suspensions, and then you still have to pay the undertaker at your end and the shipping expenses. The Norwegian solution is more expensive because we have to buy a 4 person bigfoot dewar, while C.I. just charges you for 1 storage slot, I have to charge you for a 4 person dewar. Of course if other cryonisists were interested in buying the 3 other slots, you would save about USD 15,000 and 3/4 of the shipping cost of the dewar as well. Facility rental is also somewhat expensive as long as one has only one client in suspension, and liquid nitrogen is presently more expensive here than in the USA.) Option B)Just buying a small electrical cryo freezer and preserving just the head is less expensive. You would save about USD 15,000 on the initial expenses. E.g. exhumation,freezing, shipping, renting a facility, and buying an electrical freezer would all cost about USD 25,000. And the annual expense would be facility rental (USD 1,700) electricity and caretaking or about USD 500 a month total. (It might be of general interest to the cryonet to know that Harris/Revco's largest readily available off the shelf electrical freezers that go down to minus 140 degrees below 0 Celcius, are large enough to freeze whole human beings. The catch is that the body has to be frozen in a kneeling position (like the yoga posture called yoga mudra) sitting on the floor with the feet bent under one's buttocks and with the forehead resting on the floor. Of course this means that one has to get to the body before rigor mortis. For added safety the freezer could then be backfilled with dry ice. These freezers sell for about USD 12,500 pluss shipping, customs duty and value added tax. They could be used for freezing one whole body or about 7 heads.) Option C) Having him exhumed for reburrial in Australia, in his country of birth or elsewhere and at the same time take cell samples and then only freezing and storing some 20 vials with dead cells, is the least expensive option. You would still have the exhumation and reburrial cost, but the cell samples could inexpensively be shipped to any existing cryonic company and inexpensively be stored there. In case anyone from Cells-4-Life or at C.I. reads this, what would you charge as a one time cost for storing 10 to 20 small cryo tubes with dead cell samples? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************** Maybe storing cell samples is the most viable solution in this case, and all that is needed to give Elizabeth a sense of having done her best? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*************** The 3 above options would mean that the whole body, the head or at least some cell samples would be stored at a low enough temperature to prevent further biological deterioration. Permafrost burrial, does not stop the biological breakdown, thus I don't look upon it as a viable storage form. Elizabeth, I am mentioning the above options in case you can't afford to store the full body. Once your bank has verified for me, that you have the money you say you want to spend on the storage of your father, Then we will fill out that paper work, and submit the necessasry paper work to the Norwegian government. Once the latter promises not to intervene, then we can turn the paper work over to the Australian government, If they find nothing to object to, then you have to transfer the money in accordance with whatever contract we at that point have signed. Whereupon I will rent, buy and install what it takes to receive your father. Sincerely, Trygve Bauge >----- Original Message ----- >From: elizabeth kostadinova. >To: >Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:59 AM >Subject: REGARDING GETTING EXHUMATION AND PAPER WORK DON >IMMEDIATELY,. > > >DEAR trygve, >Regarding signing up, with acontact, and getting dad, shipped to Norway for longterm >preservation,. >Dear tygve, , >Can you please email the legal paper work to get dad shipped to Norway, >S o I can submitt the legal papper work, for him to go to NORWAY, >and can you explain what the precudure will be after that,, >please email me at your earilest convenience, >THANK -YOU >Regars, >Elizabeth Kostadinova,. >email Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16775