X-Message-Number: 16835
Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 21:42:13 -0400
From: fair4us <>
Subject: Trolling for Vitamin C Safety Info.

In #16789, curiously titled "Trolling for Hate," Mike Darwin tries to 
psychoanalyze my recent post, and to conclude "This is a person with 
history and an agenda of some sort to prosecute."  It doesn't work, because 
most of the assumptions are invalid.  The only history I'm dealing with is 
what I know of published materials from Cryonics and Cryonics-related 
organizations, and from Cryonet archives.  I learned a lot about Mike from 
Cryonet archives of around 5-6 years ago, and I have read most of 
them.  His more recent postings seem calmer and more positive, until I 
started asking (I guess) the wrong questions.

I do not intend to prosecute any agenda or anybody.  My main agenda was to 
try to get Mike and any others to further clarify the Vitamin C issue, 
since it is personal to me.  If there was a secondary agenda, it was to 
learn why Mike suddenly made a public statement in favor of the study in 
which LEF finds flaws, and along with that it would have been helpful to 
have learned why Mike is no longer with 21CM (assuming that he is not) and 
why after some years of eschewing cryonics he has suddenly decided to start 
a cryonics company.  But, instead of clarifying issues on Vitamin C and 
cryonics/research organizations, about all we got was pages of loyalty 
statements to Saul and Bill (most of which was no doubt accurate and well 
deserved, but a little much).

The latter was really the lesser issue in my mind, and I can't really 
understand why it was blown out of proportion when all I said was "Ah, but 
Mike doesn't work for them anymore, right?"  I'm sorry if this made Mike 
think I am some old enemy, or trying to ruin somebody's "good name" (whose 
and how??) but I am not; I have never met him.  And, more on the matter of 
whether Mike ever worked for them, perhaps he never knew that according to 
a 21CM insider (whose name and private email message I am ethically 
constrained from divulging) 21CM is apparently owned over 50% by a 
non-profit organization "related to LEF" (notwithstanding the LEF web page 
claim posted earlier that 21CM is LEF's research laboratory).

If Mike had spent more time on the above issues and less time defending his 
mentors and attacking me, we would all be ahead.  In that light, I wish to 
thank him for rephrasing my prior email.  If he does not wish to talk any 
more about organizational issues and affiliations, at least he might give 
more attention to the following:

"I don't understand Mike Darwin's position on vitamin C. In light of the
papers and other analysis cited by the Life Extension foundation at this


I'd be interested to know what Mike Darwin's response to this is? I am a
layman without expertise in these areas and I find the apparent
contradictions confusing. I'm sure other people in my position feel the same

Thank you.

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