X-Message-Number: 16838
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 00:00:50 +0000 ()
From: Louis Epstein <>
Subject: Replies to CryoNet #16760 - #16767

On 1 Jul 2001, CryoNet wrote:

> ---------------------------------------------------- 
> Message #16760 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:44:53 -0400
> From: <>
> Thanks for posting message 16720 regarding how life insurance can
> pay for cryonics.
> I hope it cleared up the questions Louis E had on the matter, and
> i hope that he can get signed up.  (Louis: Rudi ()
> has helped many of us, including me, and i hope he can help you.)
> But i do know that there's an opportunity for something much more
> important than discussing these related, interesting topics, and
> that is actually doing something and getting signed up with a
> cryonics organization.  Thanks to the efforts of generation 0,
> this is not hard to do for most people.
> dan

As much as it may depress you,

The bang-for-immortalist-buck case
has NOT been proven to my satisfaction.
I expect the technologies may mature
to become more confidence-inspiring,
but that doesn't mean it's imperative
to commit to them as they are.

I intend to go on living and don't see
my prospects of doing so at much risk
at the moment.You can point to Chislenko
and his sudden death before signing up,
I can point to that guy who was signed up
and went out to Africa where he died far
from help.

We'll see what the future holds.
If I live to the average age of my
grandparents,I'll be here in 2039.
If I live as long as one of my
great-great-great-grandfathers I'll
be here in 2059.And if I live as long
as his great-granddaughter who remembers
him today I'll be here through 2065.

What will the technologies hold then?
Quite possibly,means to last much longer.

In the meantime,I'm looking around.
Not itching to buy.
> ---------------------------------------------------- 
> Message #16765 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:33:20 -0700
> From: Mike Perry <>
> I hadn't heard of the Black Dragon, but I have studied the 
> Japanese-American incarceration, and I strongly disagree with the 
> conclusion that it was "absolutely necessary."

I will briefly record my agreement.
The American-born children of American-
born parents were confined to camps for
no reason but their ancestry.
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Message #16766 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 02:33:43 -0400
> From: "Kevin Q. Brown" <>
>    Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:44:27 -0400
>    From: "faloon, william" <>
> To reach your member of Congress, just call 1-202-225-3121 and give your
> zip code. You will be transferred directly to your member of Congress's
> office to let your voice be heard.

This assumes that people don't know who
their Representative is.Of course one can
find that out easily even if one has
forgotten the last election.Directories
typically give the office phone numbers.

See http://www.house.gov/ of course,though
I would like to see a full email directory
so that you can reach any member you feel
you have a bone to pick with.

> ----------------------------------------------------
> Message #16767 Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:31:44 -0700
> From: Kennita Watson <>
> Louis Epstein wrote: 
> > 
> > >
> > > I will probably upload eventually, but along the way I expect to:
> > >
> > > - replace my vocal chords with more flexible and pure-toned ones (I
> > >       love to sing) -- including a much wider range
> > 
> > With real ones or fakes?
> Do you think Stephen Hawking should be denied a set of
> artificial vocal chords if they are developed? 


> What about people with throat cancer?


> And why should they have to take ones just like the ones they
> lost if better ones are available?

What's developed should be biological
if at all possible.

> >From http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/eheart/manmade.html :  Read it and weep:
> 	The Artificial Human
> 	The era of the man-made man or woman has arrived. Scientists, surgeons, 
> 	and so-called bioengineers are working overtime to develop artificial 
> 	organs, grow skin and other body parts in the laboratory, and even 
> 	propagate whole, living organs, including the human heart. 

Sounds a lot like biotech.
Not like the robotization/redesign
that I'm criticizing.

> The Web site above discusses artificial hips, shoulders, arms, and knees.

My father has patents on artificial hips and
knees,using roller bearings.I'm not saying
there should be no implants...just that one
shouldn't deliberately replace viable biological
parts with artificial parts.

> I'm sure further advances are coming, such as muscles for those with 
> muscular dystrophy, sure to be improved shortly thereafter.

Hopefully biological.
> Again, as technoogy improves, why should such people be forced to 
> live with inferior stuff, and why should I be forced to live with
> inferior stuff for the crime of not having been disabled severely 
> enough?

People should live with biological stuff,
because that's what living is.

> > > - greatly increase my endurance
> > 
> > How?
> They already make artificial hearts and lungs -- those too will 
> advance.  And those muscles I mentioned...

Just don't replace what you
can avoid replacing.

> > > - replace all my bones with diamondoid fibers or other synthetics
> > 
> > By genetically engineered biological means,or
> > just rip and stitch?
> Not necessarily either.  (Hmm -- if I figure out how to do all 
> of this by genetic engineering, do I get the Epstein Seal of 
> Approval? :-)


> Anyhow, I assume nanotech will be involved, replacing one molecule at a
> time, maybe even at a rate similar to that at which the bone would
> normally regenerate, to minimize trauma. 

Much better than rip-and-stitch.

> > > - replace my eyes and visual cortex with ones that can process
> > >       a much wider spectrum
> > > - replace my ears and auditory cortex with ones that can
> > >       process a much wider spectrum
> > 
> > You think you'd like this?
> Absolutely --- as long as I had control over tbe range and sensitivity.
> I don't want enhanced ears to limit my appreciation of my neighbor's
> fourth-grader's violin recital, but I'd like to be able to hear when 
> someone is sneaking up behind me, or when a super-or-subsonic sound
> warns of an avalanche or a piece of failing machinery.

I think it would be more complex than
you're considering.The different sensory
range would alienate you from the input
you're used to and make you think of it

> > > - set myself up so sleeping was no longer required
> > > - and eating
> > > - and excreting
> > > - and breathing
> > > - and dying
> > >
> > > When in there did I stop being human?
> > 
> > Quite possibly somewhere,depending on how you do it.
> Depending on whether you find it creepy, you mean.

Well,your creepometer doesn't seem to
be working.I hope you don't need an
artificial one implanted.:)

> > > As far as I'm concerned, I'd still be me, which is
> > > what matters in my book.
> > 
> > If you turned into something not-you deluded that it was you,you/it
> > wouldn't really be you.
> And why should I accept your judgement on whether or not I am me?
> Who better to tell?  Do you think some evil implant would conspire
> to delude me?

It would be programmed to delude you,
most likely.And you'd want to have it
that way.But once you were not human,
you wouldn't be a you anymore.
> I'm ranting now, because I think I see technophobia and I'm 
> getting upset. 

I don't consider myself a technophobe,
but neither am I a technomaniac.

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