X-Message-Number: 16861
From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: solution for massive rudeness
Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 22:11:19 +0200

 <> wrote:

>Subject: solution for massive rudeness

> Trygve,
> You are rude!

Though I agree that posting urls might be a good way to reduce band width,
I don't see my band width use as being rude.

1.I have not been repetitive:
I have not posted the same message twice to Cryonet.

2.I have not strayed from the topic of this list.
All my posts with the exception of 3 has been on cryonics, and the 3
exceptions has been on problems that face cryonisists like protectionism and
how to find time for cryonics when one is in a relationship with a girl
opposed to cryonics. (cfr. the long running thread on gays and cryonics.),

3.Even with my postings the traffic on Cryonet has been lower than on most
other lists I am familiar with: I also subscribe to the Extropian digest and
to the San Diego libertarian list,
and the traffic there are much higher than it has ever been on the Cryonet.
As a matter of fact most of the lists I have subscribed to over the years
have had a much higher traffic than the Cryonet.  e.g. the Austrian economy
list etc.

4. I have posted quite a few useful articles and pieces of information.
e.g. on where to get hold of dewars, electrical freezers, liquid nitrogen
plants etc., and questions and solutions relevant to improving available
cryonics services.

5. I have in private mails received quite a few thank you notes and much
positive feedback on  many of the entries I have posted.

6. Yes, I realize that I the last 2 days have posted more messages than what
it hitherto has been common to post to cryonet. However, that was in
response to a backlog of messages that I had received over several weeks. It
seems to me that if one has the time to respond to messages each day, then
there would never be that many responses any one day.
However, when one has not had the time to respond for a while and thus have
a back log of messages then there will for a few days be more responses
until one has caught up.
I have thus spent 11 hours the day before yesterday and 13 hours yesterday
trying to catch up on mail I have received and posts that addresses me or
things I do.
The alternative is to not catch up and let errors and attacks stay
or only mail answers to a few or only post answers at some URL, in what case
only a few of those that saw the original attacks will see the corrections
and rebuttals.
This leads to misunderstandings and animosity.

7. But most important:
If we want cryonics to grow we should encourage postings on the topic of
and try to increase both band width and traffic, so that we at least could
become as active
as other mailing lists.

8.If traffic ever gets too big, one can add meta names in the subject line,
so that it is easier to follow threads, or split the mailing list in one for
announcements and in
another for debates like the libertarians in San Diego have done.

>Your unnecessarily massive posting to CryoNet

Obviously I don't see it as unnecessarily massive postings, but as an
attempt to let the cryonic movement know every step in the Australian case,
so to set a presedence that differs from the secrecy practiced by the other
cryonic groups.
I thought that by running one case fully in the public, then many people
including myself, might learn a few things that would enable better
suspensions in the future. E.g. more people would contribute and/or pick up
useful pieces of information as to how anyone can organize new cryonics
organizations in their own countries. Independent of what that happens to
the Australian case, it is useful to stimulate cryonisists to set up
organizations in more countries, and running one case publicly on the
Cryonet could be that stimulation.

> has made
> me stay up late three times to split the digests into smaller pieces.
> (When the digest size exceeds 100 KB many people never receive it.)

I wasn't aware that I was depriving you of sleep at night.
Thus you can't call my action as rude.
As a matter of fact I haven't used any four letter words, nor have I flamed
I have just used cryonet the way it is common to use many other letter

As far as your nightly sleep is concerned, now that I know it is a problem:
Couldn't you just set the digest to automatically go out twice a day e.g.
every 12 hours rather than just every night?
If that is impossible, then what about changing the clock forward 12 hours
or so in the morning  so that the digest goes out automatically around noon,
then set it right again in the afternoon, so that the digest goes out
automatically again at night?

> Please stop doing that.  You would do better to place messages
> on your own web site and post just the URLs to CryoNet.

I will look into that, as far as some lengthy future announcements and
articles are concerned. However, I will still reply to cryonet when someone
there has posted any comments to me or regarding me and what I do.

I also still think that there is a general interest on the Cryonet in
following the Australian case, and the attempts to create a Norwegian

And why have mailing circles if one can't post to these on their defined
Wouldn't it then be better to leave out all the debates about gays and other
issues that isn't directly focused on publishing information about,
requesting  and getting feedback on and improving: cryonic companies, tools,
supplies, routines, services and suspensions?

> save a lot of bandwidth and also give you the opportunity to examine
> your web site's access statistics to find how many people are really
> interested.  (You could even encode the URLs to determine from your
> access logs which ones came from your CryoNet postings.)

How do I do that, with what code? html or java?

My massive postings can also be seen as my attempt to wake up the cryonics
movement to the the fact that our service to the many post mortem requests
for cryonic suspensions have been dissmal, and that cryonics would stand
much stronger if we can find better ways to assist and utilize all the post
mortem requests that so far for the most part have been turned down. Too
many requests have been turned down without any publicity what so ever to
support those who's interest in cryonics thereby have been crushed.

Maybe massive publicity about the Australian case would wake up the general
public, so that those interested in cryonics would know to sign up their
dying relatives in time! or at least know enough to respond within hours of
a death.

The message to send could be:  You have to act fast, or you are out of luck.
And since
so many have acted to late, we are doing the Australian case to publicize
the problem,
e.g. an argument could be made for assisting the Australian lady, just
because she is late with her request, so to improve how we handle late
cases, and so to better educate the public to the importance of signing up
in time. The message could be: Look, this ladies case
is even more of a long shot than most, she would have been better off if she
had acted in time. And most people that act late are out of luck. However we
are stilll helping her so to educate the public about the problem, and so
that people will call in time, and the cryonic organizations won't get all
these post mortem requests.

Personally I would say that not assisting the Australian lady, would be
If posting her case is rude, then rudeness be damned. (or rather: then such
rudeness would be a virtue.)


Trygve Bauge

>     Kevin Q. Brown

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