X-Message-Number: 16976 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:42:57 -0700 From: Olaf Henny <> Subject: Constructive Thinking Without Consciousness? References: <> From the debate on consciousness here on cryonet, it appears, that the definition of consciousness, and who has it, covers a wide range of divergence. I believe, that the fly or mosquito, which escapes my slapping hand has fear, recognizes the approaching danger and consciously tries to get away, therefore is conscious. Others seem to put the limit between man and the rest of the fauna, writing all else off as instinct. So here is the reason of this posting, an article in today's The Province paper here in Vancouver: Quote: Quack thinking mom rescues her brood By Mark Wilson, Staff Reporter It was the tug of the wild, that surprised Ray Petersen. The Vancouver police civilian worker was walking beneath the north approach ramp to Granville Street Bridge at 6 a.m. yesterday, when a duck pulled at one of his pant legs with her beak. She then waddled to a storm drain 20 metres away. After this exercise was repeated twice, Petersen walked over to the drain and saw that a brood of ducklings had slipped through the grating. A Busters Towing truck lifted the grating and Petersen use a colander to lift out the ducklings, which were quickly reunited with their resourceful mother. "It was nearly unbelievable that a wild duck would behave like that" said Petersen. End of quote I say, that this duck supplied us with a good example for constructive thinking, which must account for consciousness, even if you refuse to accept the fear of the fly as such evidence. Best, Olaf PS: The ethics of quoting: If I quote a text verbatim, do I have to include spelling and punctuation errors of the original, or am I allowed to correct these? I have done a bit of both in the above text. : ^) Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16976