X-Message-Number: 16999 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:05:42 -0700 From: Lee Corbin <> Subject: Re: selfishness again Robert Ettinger writes >Lee Corbin writes in part: > > It is unpersuasive to claim that our efforts to treat some animals > humanely arises entirely from our self interest, unless one starts > down the idiotic slope of claiming that everything that anyone does > is for a selfish reason. >Of course one can always play with words, but it is both logical and useful >to recognize the ubiquity of self interest, despite the many problems and >complications. Yes indeed! The great prevalent misconception of our age that has caused more misery than any other misconception is that people can be motivated over long periods of time by nothing more than altruism. Socialists, and even most liberals, cannot understand the sole unique success of capitalism simply because they cannot understand the essential role of self interest. >Any motivated act by definition is related to what you want, >and if you do it because of what you want, then you are doing >it to serve yourself--even if some of the consequences are >adverse to some of your other interests, and even if it helps >someone else more than yourself. The simple problem with your view is this. Accepting it implies that everything from kindness to generosity are illusory, and are committed by a party only for selfish reasons. We must conclude (from your view) that the most extreme acts of anonymous philanthropy are in fact selfishly motivated. Now, WE KNOW ALL THE FACTS HERE. You understand what is really going on in people's nervous systems as well as I, and I understand what is really going on in peoples nervous systems as well as you. So what are we debating? We are debating terminology, and the important semantic links that our terms have. You can go ahead and *call* great acts of philanthropy selfish if you want to. You can go ahead and claim that altruism doesn't exist. You can maintain that every single act done by every single organism in the universe is done because it is obeying the laws of physics and is selfish. You are merely making it very hard for people to understand you, and you are relegating to the dust bin a lot of words and concepts (e.g. thoughtfulness, generosity, kindness) that have been part of human languages for one hundred thousand years. Lee Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16999