X-Message-Number: 17044 From: Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 11:29:08 EDT Subject: Corbin & commons again Continuing his defense of "real" altruism, Lee Corbin gives us another thought experiment, which is really just one of countless variations of the Problem of the Commons--Why should you (or not) do something that will inconvenience you at the moment but would benefit everyone if everyone made it a habit. In terms of enlightened (long term) self interest, one could make various kinds of calculations about the long term effect of your decision(s) on both yourself (your psyche) and others. Roughly, one could say that my "altrusitic" decision (if that is the one I make) is mainly to maintain my self-image as a decent person. (As to myself personally, it depends on my mood; sometimes I do one, sometimes the other.) Lee also writes: << Also very feeble is the reason, "Well, I did it in order to feel good." Well, duh! EVERYTHING that people do could be written off with such reasoning, >> Lee is still missing the point. Smoke and mirrors with language is the sin of the traditonalists, not of those who claim that all (individual) interest is self interest. It is exactly, scientifically, objectively correct to say that every motivated act is done in order to feel good (or avoid feeling worse). This is obscured, but not negated, by the many difficulties and complications involved. Obviously we have many wants or needs or goals or desires or ends, some of them in apparent conflict. We want to grab and we want to give. We want distinction (to be different and better) and we want community (to be the same or to belong). We want to preserve ourselves, and we want to sacrifice for others. We want to exert ourselves, and we want to rest. Etc. At present we know very little about correct strategy (based on the underlying biology), and do very little about correct tactics (based on decision theory). Everyone, including me and thee, is still a bumbling barbarian in this area. But you have to start with a willingness to question your habits and indoctrination, including some of the traditional uses of language. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17044