X-Message-Number: 17053 Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:14:46 -0700 From: Mike Perry <> Subject: Kindness, Selfishness, Libertarians Lee Corbin, #17043, raises the issue of whether an act of kindness can always be considered "selfish" even when there is (apparently) no possibility of reciprocal benefit. In his example you stop your car to allow someone to get out of a parking lot ahead of you, someone you'll (apparently) never encounter again. Apparently you can't in any reasonable way argue that this act of kindness, inconveniencing yourself while you wait, is done for purely selfish reasons. But I find it not hard to justify such an act based on enlightened self-interest (the best form of selfishness). As a start you could consider the attitude of a Buddhist monk, who would benefit others out of compassion without expectation of reciprocal benefit. If asked for justification, he might say that his state of bliss at renouncing the usual self-centered concerns more than makes up for any "wasted" effort on his part. His "selflessness" thus clearly has a selfish motive (bliss), even if he knows his actions will not be compensated in more usual ways. For me, an immortalist, the complete denial of self doesn't cut it, though I can sympathize with the Buddhists. (I would instead uphold an enlightened version of the self, for each and every being, that is *worthy* of independent existence and even, in some sense, worship. This I think is more difficult than the Buddhists' simple self-denial, but ultimately also more rewarding.) But I also have no problem justifying uncompensated acts of kindness in (enlightened) self-interested terms. There is a simple satisfaction in knowing someone is benefited, and one's sense of self-worth is reinforced (for me anyway). But I also take the long view. If things go as I firmly think they should, there is *no one* you will not encounter again--and again. (My immortalism is more "extreme" than some others'--well, so be it.) Kindness will be repaid more directly sooner or later; it's a long future. >Nothing is more comical than to hear libertarians try >to rationalize every genuine act of kindness they do, >as something committed for their own self-interest. >The excuses they make! The hoops they jump through! They are, presumably, neither Buddhist nor universal-immortalist! Mike Perry Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17053