X-Message-Number: 17084 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:28:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #17067 - #17078 > Umm, George my friend, what soul? My "soul" has no James Swayze wrote: > fact. Or perhaps you are referring to the > actual Greek terminology used in the bible that > often gets misinterpreted as meaning spirit > when in fact it means *body*, yes? If this is the > case then I can agree that I have a *soul* Interesting. Do you have a reference, James? > because I have a *body* and within that body I have a brain complete with it's *material* > connections that martial energy both electrical and chemical around to and fro to produce my > mind and the record of my experiences which > constitute my personality...my identity. That > identity, owing to it's unique experiences *is* > uniquely mine and worth something to me. The cryonicists' goal of preserving personal identity is a point that has been eating at me lately. It is, of course, an extrapolation of our normal everyday need to maintain and preserve a coherent sense of self from one day into the next. And I think most of us think of our identities as comprised of two main factors (1) personality [i.e. behavioral dispositions derived from genetic and environmenal influences] and (2) our memories [understanding that a significant portion of those memories have been edited and altered over time]. Since many of those on Cryonet also have transhumanist aspirations, the following problem is unavoidable. With respect to (wrt) personality: let's use the popular 5 factor theory of personalty for argument's sake. Use OCEAN as the acronym for the five basic traits: (1) openness, (2) conscientiousness, (3) extraversion, (4) agreeableness, and (5) neuroticism http://www.fmarion.edu/~personality/corr/big5/big5.htm Understand that each factor is a continuum (e.g. very extroverted to very introverted) and where you lie one each of the five continuums describes your personality pattern. BUT in the future ... as a ">H" , I would not want to be constrained by these kinds of predispositions. Let's say I'm an introvert by circumstance. Becoming a >H means transcending that predisposition if I find it helpful to engage in extroverted kinds of behaviors. A >H should be able to select any number of actions regardless of where they might fall on any of the five factors. So, how does one describe the personality of a >H since predispositioned behaviors have been eliminated? Instead only those behaviors which are most reasonable and in the enlightened self-interest of the >H will manifest. The upshot of this is that there will be much less variation in the behaviors of different >H's than we currently see among ourselves. Now some might argue that transcending personality does not significantly erode identity because it is only part of the equation. They might say, "Who I am is mostly about my memories". OK, so what happens when we are able to share memories like computers share text files? To keep from falling behind all the those who are rapidly uploading all kinds of experiences and memories from others, we will feel compelled, I suspect, to keep up with the jones. But eventually, isn't it likely that we'll all have about 99% of the same memories? So ... NOW who am I? ... and how do I differ from you? It puts a new twist on the notion of a future singularity ... one in which there is really only a single mind distributed across billions of separate bodies. I guess there'd be a lot fewer disagreements between individuals and multiculturalism would be moot. Only neo-luddites would hold on to their original identities, but who knows ... maybe there'll be a place for them to survive and/or thrive. To the readers, have I missed an important aspect of identity in this analysis (please don't say, "the soul")? 8^D Comments welcome. Vita Perpetuem, Scott Badger __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17084