X-Message-Number: 17105 From: Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:21:14 EDT Subject: Perceptive & Perswayzive James Swayze: Nice work on several counts! Two of which (in my opinion) are: 1) Excellent analysis in your post this week titled "NDE study not scientific" which critiqued the "research" and conclusions, from apparently psuedo-science at best, as reported in an article by Sarah Tippit titled "Scientist Says Mind Continues After Brain Dies." At least Sarah got some mileage and we got some smilage (sorry, couldn't resist) --up until that concern you raised about potential "research grants." That's scary. Assuming a finite world budget for all R&D (i.e., research and development), "snake oil science" can be deadly. Well deserved and delivered D&D (i.e., dissing and debunking)! I second Mike Perry's words on the subject: QUOTE "...By the way, James, I really liked your debunking effort for the tiresome claims of consciousness during clinical death." UNQUOTE 2) Your comments on George Harrison's likely thinking also rings true for me and also reminded me of some thoughts: QUOTE "...the news feed I saw had him sitting next to what appeared to be his swami or guru, was that he's, as we all know, a confirmed deathist reincarnation believer waiting for his mystical ascension and I doubt anyone will convince him otherwise in time. Pity...what a great loss. Now that I think of it what was the justification for his sound bite? One could interpret it as a plug for his deathist beliefs. He says he's prepared for his fate and at peace or words to that effect. Read between the lines and you get, 'I'm going to a better existence...follow my example'. Rubbish!" UNQUOTE I believe John B. Krug's comments are insightful: QUOTE "Regardless of what he or anyone believes about things "spiritual", wouldn't it be great if he considered cryonics to be "just" another treatment?" UNQUOTE Something that strikes me (and others I'm sure) as odd is that regardless of one's "beliefs," or not, regarding the potential or certainty of life after death, reincarnation, etc., a cryopreserved body should not be an interference with such beliefs at all (with a possible exception being in cases where the believer also believes that cryonics may in fact work--some other time, if ever, on that line of thought though). If one's body is buried, burned or frozen--what's the difference? Why not "hedge your bet/belief" particularly if one has an abundance of earthly resources. On the other hand, I understand that admissions or expressions of doubt are particularly poorly received in some belief systems. This thinking/logic goes hand in hand with a long-held belief of mine (and perhaps yours and other's). Again, I have no delusions of the thought's originality with me, but will take credit or blame just the same as I do not know precisely where it otherwise belongs: People have no choice at all in what they believe. None. People believe what they believe based on their intellect and experience (i.e., nature & nurture). To the degree that people "choose to believe" that which they otherwise would believe less (or reject that which they believe may be true) is a measure of the degree of conditioning (e.g., extra/extended nurturing, "brainwashing", etc.) they have been subjected to or have subjected themselves to, or both; and whether such conditioning comes willingly or not makes no difference at all. We may freely choose what we would like to believe--but that's all--and when it's not, the above is true. People are thoroughly adverse to uncertainty regarding their own (continued) existence and the existence of others, and have developed (potentially tragic) defense mechanisms to deal with it. I also believe in the saying: "Where there is a will, there is a way" --sometimes many hundreds of them. Good to have you back. Regards, David C. Johnson, Raleigh, NC Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17105