X-Message-Number: 17220
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 03:38:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Louis Epstein <>
Subject: Catchup...Aug 2-4 Cryonet
CryoNet - Thu 2 Aug 2001
------------------------
#17169: Re: CryoNet #17157 - #17167 [michaelprice]
>> I'm 40,and until I was 19 had no fillings.Now I'm uncomfortably
>> reminded of the perishability of teeth.What are we going to do
>> to make them last more centuries?
>I've had the reverse experience. I had loads of fillings up to 21/22,
>then I started supplementing and have had none since (I'm 41).
>There is evidence that B-vitamins protect against dental decay.
>See Thomas Donaldson's Guide to AntiAging Drugs, Chap 5 (about B6), page 4
>Michael C Price
My supplementing history has been uneven,
but the latest fillings come despite doing
so recently more than in the past.
But wear may be more daunting than decay.
Will we need to "top up" our teeth?
#17171: New teeth [WalkerBill]
>> reminded of the perishability of teeth...
>The Creative Biomolecules company has synthesized the tooth protein; it
>has nucleating centers every 200 nanometers for the calcium flouride
>phosphate crystals. There was a two-part calcium flouride phosphate
>toothpaste (calcium phosphate in one compartment, fouride in the other)
Sounds complicated,which could be a marketing problem.
I gather you're not talking about the "stripy" type of
toothpaste.
>sold as "Enamelon"... unfortunately the FDA decreed that they couldn't
>tell anyone why the toothpaste was better so it went out of business.
>Anyway, a combination of the protein and the minerals would let you make
>a synthetic filling/crowning material that would be exactly the same as
>natural teeth. Don't hold your breath for FDA approval. In the meantime,
>drink green tea, it kills streptococcus mutans. -Bill Walker
Just which teas are "green" again?
And is anyone trying to get FDA approval,
or is it thought to be not worth trying?
CryoNet - Fri 3 Aug 2001
------------------------
#17177: Re: Louis Epstein on QM and 1 subject per message. [Azt28]
[Yvan Bozzonetti.]
>Would not it simpler to have one message for each subject/answer? The
>catch up ones are difficult to read.
It would be impossible.I have far more
than four messages to reply to each day
of catch-up,and can send no more than
four separate messages a day.
#17178: Re: CryoNet #17172 Ettinger on nano tech. [Azt28]Yvan Bozzonetti.
>I restate my viewpoint:
>-Yes, we must do research now, this is the most useful thing to do.
>-Yes, that research must start with what we have and Dr. Pichugin's work
>is what must done now.
>No, that will not bring to us a general solution, only reversible
>cryopreservation in X years, not a way to get out of the fridge current
>patients.
Until there is a reversible cryoperservation,
few will see cryonics as viable.The reaching
of such a milestone should not be underestimated
in its potential to bring in the wherewithal to
solve further problems.
Of course,there is what can be called the
Tag Team Circumstance...as soon as a given
condition can be dealt with effectively
enough to get people with it OUT of
cryostasis,it will no longer be a valid
reason to put someone INTO cryostasis
since the means of healing it will be
more easily used on the live than the frozen.
> -For present day cryonics *user*, the first solution will be some upload
>technology. For it, indeed, we not need to know how the brain works, we
>need only two things:
Leaving aside the usefulness of
"upload technology"...by "present
day cryonics *user* I assume you
mean those already preserved,not
those to whom cryonic services are
presently marketed?
>A big processing information system, a classical computer or something
>else, and A brain reader. That is why I am interested in that technology.
>To get out of LN2 the original flesh, there will must be an atom scale nano
>tech capability, and this one has a big computing problem as noted before.
I don't think that the nanoreading of a brain
could be accomplished while the brain was
still frozen,so I don't see how you can
"upload" someone still in the LN2.
#17180: Re: Teeth problems [Edd111]
>Currently, there is no true filling material that is 'exactly the same
>as natural teeth'. The best crop of restorative materials for teeth are
>composites, or composite polymer crowns. There has been talk of cloning
>enamel from tooth genes, but that is still a fantasy. However, even if
>it were possible, it would still be just another innovative restorative
>material. Dentistry is 'overkilled' with excellent filler materials.
>The true breakthroughs, i.e., growing a tooth/treating periodontal disease
>from assembler nanotech is perhaps decades away. (Yes, I wish it were
>sooner)
What about the stem-cell-tooth-bud strategy
mentioned by James Swayze recently?Same thing
as the cloned enamel in material,perhaps,but
it's supposed to grow a whole tooth.(Longer-
lasting than the original?...perhaps not).
>Note: The most common cause of tooth loss, and its attendant problems,
>is from periodontitis, or gum disease, in those of us over 30.
And I understand that periodontal disease
is an indicator of decreased longevity in
general.So far,I have avoided it,but I'm
getting more nervous with time.
>Green Tea is of limited help here, since it cannot adequately break up
>the disease-producing bacteria that reside in calcified colonies on the
>root surfaces of the teeth.
Well,I trust other measures can disrupt these.
I have crooked lower front teeth that have
always accumulated tartar,and which re-jumbled
themselves after my braces came off in my teens.
#17181: God's old men... [john grigg]
>Louis Epstein asked:
>Let's see, Oaks would be close to 98 then,Holland 89, Eyring almost 97...
>who do you see as the permanent president of the Church, then?(end)
>I see Jeffery Holland(former BYU-Provo president) as probably being the
>president, since he is presently a junior and fairly young apostle. Of
>course, whether his health holds up is a crucial matter. And he may wind
>up actually running the church from behind the scenes while a physically
>infirm man is officially the president. And then again, a man not even an
>apostle yet may be in charge then.
Hmm,that last would involve an acceleration
in turnover,since Brigham Young was the last
Church president to take office after less
than thirty years as an Apostle.As lives
lengthen turnover is likelier to slow down.
>I do sometimes wonder about the effectiveness of having church leadership
>determined by longevity. But then, I would not want things to get overly
>political with the church having an election(like those Catholics)! lol
Umm...but the LDS elect their leaders every six months!
It's just that the candidates are always unopposed,and
voting is by show of hands with a leading candidate doing
the counting and announcing the results as unanimous approval.
(And each President's first election more formally gets
*everyone* on record as having voted for him).
Of course,seniority governs and has from the beginning;
which is what makes the LDS leadership an interesting
study,and potential leading indicator,of the effects
of lengthening lifespan on institutions.
>I truly wonder what the church stand will be when highly effective and
>inexpensive longevity treatments are here. I think it will probably be
>accepted, especially if the technology comes slowly, instead of
>overnight. I could see as a result a limited term of service for even
>senior leadership should this happen.
I don't see why this would follow.
A religion,after all,is in the business
of presenting values that never change;
a leadership that never changed might be
seen as consistent with this.
(Could the apocryphal Prophecies of
Malachi,said to indicate only two more
Popes after the present one,really
indicate that human immortality will
be perfected in the time of the Pope
after next?)
>Already, members of the second Quorum of the Seventy(a lower body of
>senior church hierarchy) are released after a certain amount of time or
>if their health fails them. In the past this was unknown.
While the Seventies have been subject to release
since the 1980s,I note that every Presiding Bishop
since William Bowker Preston stepped down in 1907
has been released,rather than dying in office.
The Church Presidency,however,I think is seen differently
as the recent history of incumbents being virtually
incapacitated shows.
When Benson was in his last years and his extreme
infirmity was commented on as making him unfit for
being able to deliver a prophecy from on high if
called for,the official response was "This is
Jesus Christ,who could raise Lazarus from the
dead...how much simpler it would be for Him to
restore President Benson to full health and
function!"
I wonder...could LDS policy stretch to include a
president *in cryonic suspension* as still holding
office in case God decided to fix him up?
CryoNet - Sat 4 Aug 2001
------------------------
#17190: Re: SF great Poul Anderson has died [Mark Plus]
>I've felt for a long time now that it's unwise to depend on science fiction
>(SF) writers as gurus or guides to conduct. They may seem brilliant and
>insightful in their own way, especially considering that the "Golden Age"
>of SF is -- 12. But when it comes to dealing with the problems in the adult
>world, SF writers don't necessarily know any better than anyone else. It
>wouldn't surprise me if, for example, Ben Bova dies without having
>arrangements for cryotransport, even though he wrote about cryonics in
>his nonfiction _Immortality_ book a few years ago.
Obviously,if a writer agrees with you that
it's "knowing better",he'll sign up.But they
tend not to.(Broderick,Halperin are obvious
exceptions...and Ettinger wrote one published
SF story,right?).History records that H.G.
Wells and Laurence Manning did not attempt to
emulate their suspended characters.
My reading the Cryonet archives showed the
frustration here when Isaac Asimov,Gerald
Feinberg,Carl Sagan,and Gerard O'Neill all
died "for keeps".
>Besides, I find reading SF these days a frustrating experience. If
>you've read a couple dozen SF novels, you've pretty much read them all.
>I'd prefer to work on making my real life an SF-like adventure some day.
Well,the longer we live the more
chance of this we have.
#17194: Re: Louis Epstein on QM and 1 subject per message. [Kennita Watson]
>I heartily concur! Louis, please respond to one message per message.
No.
>For one thing, it may help you recognize messages that don't require a
>response.
I make that decision already...I do not reply
to every message,only those that I feel like
replying to.
>For another, it helps those of us who like to see meaningful subject
>lines.
Unfortunately,being limited to four messages
a day and with typically more than four
messages to reply to,I can't relate my
direct subject lines to the subject matter.
Further,I at least consider it an annoyance
for there to be more than one message per
day from a person when this can be avoided.
>If you separated them, you'd trip the Bauge Limit and some messages would
>be rejected.
Exactly,so I mustn't do that...or I can't
respond comprehensively.
>Clever you for finding a way around it!
Thank you.
#17195: Religion, Morality, Consciousness, Duplicates [Mike Perry]
#17185: Replies to Jul 15-8 Cryonets [Louis Epstein]
>>Any duplicate of me that was produced in such a fashion would not
>>accurately reproduce my views on such matters unless it considered
>>the mode of its creation to absolutely disqualify itself from being
>>properly considered to be me!
>Suppose, as a thought experiment, ETs contacted you today, made it
>abundantly clear that they were what they claimed to be, and informed you
>that last night they had done an experiment while you were asleep.
>Unfortunately, a mishap occurred, and the original of you was destroyed,
>but fortunately, they say, the information was backed up beforehand, a
>duplicate was made, and you are now that duplicate. What is your
>reaction? For instance, if the lost original owned a car, is it still
>your car or should it now pass to heirs? If you feel no discomfort
>otherwise, are you going to worry about it, or do anything other than
>just assume "you" are still here and carry on as before?
It would be *entirely* inconsistent with being
me to let go of my anger at the aliens for
destroying my original,in any case!!
A duplicate of me that thought it was me would
not be me.
=========-----------===========-----------
Getting pretty close to being all caught up now.
I note the death yesterday(Aug 6th) of Canada's
oldest person,Zelda McCague(born March 1888),
and the death July 29th of Jack Goldberg,whose
documentation was never put together but who
may have been the oldest man in the world
(born December 1888).
May times come when they are seen as having died young!
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17220