X-Message-Number: 17222
From: "john grigg" <>
Subject: responses to Louis Epstein...
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 07:50:34 

I wrote:
>In fact, when it comes to "heart and soul" they may far exceed us in
>time.  I wonder if you are letting religious dogma get in the way of
>an understanding of the ever more rapid technological growth we are
>experiencing.

Louis Epstein wrote:
I don't think it's accurate to characterize my
philosophical positions as religious dogma.As
for technological growth,you can't let present
acceleration blind you to inevitable deceleration.
And strength is measured by staying constant in
the face of change.If inflexible definitions do
not survive,what can survive?
(end)

It is possible researchers might run into walls where Moore's law is 
concerned, but I think they will find other avenues(light, DNA, etc.) to 
keep the ball rolling.  There were critics who thought by now we would have 
already hit the wall, and they were wrong...

I do believe people need strong core values to stand strong as the winds of 
adversity blow.  But, I do think a person needs to be able to adapt where it 
is necessary, after they have carefully reexamined their beliefs and values. 
  I am not talking about "selling out."

I wrote:
>I would find it a fascinating thought that some spirits are born here >on 
>earth as A.I. instead of human beings.

you replied:
>I would find it both ridiculous and terrifying.
>Keep your ghosts out of my machines!

Then keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate!  Hey, this is simply the 
"gospel according to John Grigg!" lol  I don't really see my "theory" 
becoming a reality.  I do see future new age cults saying how their A.I. is 
the reincarnation of Uncle Charlie or Napoleon!

#17166: a new role-playing game about transhumans! [john grigg]

I wrote:
>I love Steve Jackson's GURPs rpg system, and am very excited about what
>he will be releasing later this year!

you wrote:
I haven't tried it.
Trouble is,I hate having an incomplete
collection of rulebooks.
(end)

It has been years since I actually PLAYED roleplaying games. lol!  I do 
enjoy pouring over the multitude of manuals and supplements which pour into 
my local comics shop.  I have fond memories of trying so hard to gather my 
group of highschool friends together to actually play.  We spent much more 
time in preparation then play!

you wrote:
>Steve's on Cryonet,isn't he?

And on rare occasion he delurks to make a comment.  Steve is one of the 
"gods of the Cryonet" who occasionally leave Mount Olympus to electronically 
rub shoulders with the mere mortals here! ;)  Other gods who view us at 
times are James Halperin, Saul Kent, Wil Faloon, David Brin, Fred and Linda 
Chamberlain, and yes, also Robert Ettinger(he does face his share of 
heretics).

Message #17146 From: "john grigg" <>
Subject: meme spreading devices(bumperstickers!)

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]

Message #17147 From: "john grigg" <>
Subject: will indefinite lifespan and immortalism breed cowardice?

[ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ]

you wrote:
John, just what did you have to say on these
two topics?  Would be a shame to lose the text content
that you unintentionally HTMLized.
(end)

Why thank you for the interest.  Due to popular demand I must resend them!  
Yes, the list desperately needs what I have to share on those points. LOL!

you wrote:
Of course some religions say not joining
them has the same consequences.(If I
understand the LDS position correctly,
if you live virtuously without hearing
their message,you might go to the second
class heaven.
(end)

No, they will have the opportunity of going on to exaltation, which is 
Godhood at the highest level of heaven.  They will have glorious resurrected 
bodies and with an eternal mate continue on worlds without end.  Their is a 
quote by Lorenzo Snow(deceased church president) which describes this with 
powerfully touching words, but I sadly could not find it on the net.

you wrote:
Once you've heard it,you can
go to the first if you convert,but can do
no better than the third if you don't.
And explicitly denying that their claims
are true condemns you to Outer Darkness).
(end)

Those who not only hear it, but feel the spirit of God but reject it still, 
they will not have a chance after death to go on to exaltation.
To be condemned to Outer Darkness(Mormon concept of hell which is a very 
dark and cold place) a person must have had a sure and total witness of God 
where faith was no longer even necessary, and yet hardened their heart and 
denied their knowledge out of fear or sin.  The average Mormon could not 
commit this sin.

best wishes,

John




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