X-Message-Number: 17264 From: Transoniq <> Subject: good news / bad news... Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 11:06:10 -0700 (PDT) Thomas Donaldson writes: > 1. About religion and cryonics: > Religion and cryonics have nothing to do with one another. We see > this already when we read about the advances in reviving people > with stopped heart and breathing. Right now with suitable equipment > and drugs (and the right circumstances) it can be done after 10 > minutes, not the 5 or 4 minutes people used to talk about. Where > is the discussion of religion when this is done? > [stuff deleted] > > Religion is just as irrelevant if we don't RIGHT NOW know how to > cure a condition as it is if we do ... so long as the condition > may someday have a cure. The fact that various religious people > argue against cryonics merely tells us that they misunderstand it > completely. I include the Pope in this comment, too. Thomas is certainly 100% right about cryonics having about as much to do with religion as does first aid or chemo or any other death-delaying measure - but there's an even better example of how religious objections don't enter into cases of temporary interruption of activity. Quiet the contrary. The recent stem-cell controversy has been so dominated by its "stem-cell-ness" and "right-to-life-ness" that's it's hardly noticed (or at least mentioned) that somewhere along the way, the working assumption among even the most fundy of the fundies - right up to and including the Pope - is that people who are frozen solid (even if they're really only a few cells...) have the same rights as the unfrozen. Whether this is zero rights or all rights depends on other issues - the frozen aspect isn't even a consideration. If these people are even a tiny little bit consistent, it should be obvious that this includes adults as well as embryos. In fact, they should have at least a little relief that in defending frozen adults at least they don't get into the "clump of cells" issue. The deeply religious could actually, very easily, become our most adamant defenders and strongest allies. Funny world. And on a gloomier note... There is (at least) one reason why the folks in the future won't be giving suspendees the hero's welcome that a lot of people seem to expect: survivor's vilification. This is what happens in certain "life-boat" types of disasters where the survivors are sometimes looked upon with a "why you?" type of attitude. When biostasis is commonly accepted it's going to be really easy for folks to forget (if indeed, they ever knew) just how goddamn hard it is (was) to convince someone to consider cryonics. They may look at suspendees and say, "You KNEW this would work! You KNEW everyone else was dying! Why the hell are you here and not everybody!?" Might be a good idea to tape a note to your capsule: "People I convinced..." Eric Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17264