X-Message-Number: 17419 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:05:11 -0500 From: david pizer <> Subject: More on Morgan on Alcor's president Here are some thoughts on Mr. Morgan's concerns about Alcor's president. From: From David Pizer. "Joseph W. Morgan" posted: >Subject: Credibility of Alcor >What does it do for the credibility of Alcor when they pick a president who thinks he has been on Noah's Ark? I can't think of a faster way to characterize cryonics as pseudo-science. >Joseph W. Morgan From this post one can make some assumptions which may of may not be the case. But here is what I think is Mr. Morgan's concern. Probably he feels that if Dr. Lemler was searching for Noah's Ark, Dr. Lemler may be religious or may be a Christian. Then, moving further down the risky assumption path, he may be assuming that this means that cryonics would become affiliated with the Christian doctrine somehow if its leader was a Christian. Since I don't know Dr. Lemler's religious position, and don't care, lets just look at the question in a more general way, the question I think that is being asked here is more like: "Can a religious person make a good leader for cryonics?" Besides worrying about combining religious doctrine with cryonics doctrine Mr. Morgan might also be asking: can a person who believes in a spiritual afterlife do a good job as a cryonics leader? It would seem that if a person believed in a spiritual afterlife they would not have as much need for cryonics as a person who believed that they might cease to exist forever at death. The first answer I come up with is that there are lots of religious and non-religious person working in medicine. It doesn't seem to make a lot of difference. There are good and bad ones in each category. What seems to count, and what seems should count, is their skill as a medical person, as a leader, as a problem solver, and their integrity. Most cryonicists that I know are atheists or agnostics. There are some religious persons involved, but the number is small. So we don't have a history to measure our religious leaders performance against our non-religious leaders performances. There are several ways to look at the general question besides the way mentioned above expressing doubts about a religious person being as dedicated as a person who felt that cryonics was the *only* chance for extra life. When I look at other heroic medical technology, religion does not seem to play a negative role. Some of the best transplant surgeons are religious. Some of the biggest hospitals are run by religions. I don't think there is evidence that their religions cause them to do a bad job, except in some rare cases. Is Mr. Morgan concerned that a religious person would not give a patient a good suspension in a difficult situation, or would not fight the government (or others) for the patients like we did for Dora Kent in 1988, because he (the religious person) felt the patient was going to go to heaven anyhow? If that were the case, why would the religious person go to work for Alcor in the first place? It seems like that if a person (religious or otherwise) did not believe in cryonics, they would not be working for Alcor. Or to put the point stronger (not to be rude), it seems silly that a person would think that cryonics does not have any chance of working and then go to work for a cryonics company. The fact tha Dr. Lemler is signed up and has his family signed up and is working for a cryonics company and has done a good job according to witnesses in the suspensions he was involved in should speak for him so far. On the other side of the coin, having a person who is religious is a step in combining cryonics with mainstream medicine. Religious or not, mainstream medicine seems to be the idea to give the patient the best service possible within the limitations of the resources available at the time, that's what Alcor tries to do. On a personal question of Dr. Lemler, he seems like a gentleman. Everyone so far seems to like him (that is a big plus in cryonics). He is a medical doctor, that is very helpful in his ability to make cryonics more medical. That should also help in bringing in more medical people. Dr. Lemler is relatively new to cryonics. I don't know if he is or is not religous, and I am not even curious about that; I have heard good things about him from every cryonicist who knows him so far - and I have not heard any negative things from the same group. I think we should give him some time to see what he can do. Ultimately it is the Alcor board that really runs Alcor because they hire and fire the president. The only assumption I am going to make is that the board has checked him out and they are satisfied he is qualified. David Pizer Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=17419