X-Message-Number: 17494
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 01:33:22 -0400
Subject: Rosewatergate?  Afraid Not.
From: 

In Message #17477, Miss Clarissa Wells asked why Barry Albin replaces
cryonics patients' blood with 'rose water'.  He doesn't.  Not at all.  CI
has specific solutions which it provides to the funeral directors whom it
uses and trains for on-the-spot support in treating members.  Funeral
directors are clearly and repeatedly told to use only recommended
procedures and solutions.  To vary from them in not only a violation of
our contractual agreement but quite possibly of legal statutes.  Mr.
Albin has been instructed in CI protocols by mail, email, and telephone,
and has twice visited CI headquarters itself in Michigan for further
instruction.  He does not use 'rose water' for perfusate.  Period.

Why then did he mention rose water?  To quote from Mr. Albin's response
to Robert Ettinger, who immediately wrote him upon learning of the
remark:

>> ... I am fully aware of the technical procedures of the perfusion,
having assisted you now on a number of occasions.  My reference to Rose
Water is no more than a freudian slip.  I do use a product called
"Glycerine Rose Water" in my fleet of vehicles and in that context the
"Rose Water" is actually de-ionised, distilled water.  To me the term
Rose Water is synonymous with "soft" water.  Please be assured that I do
not add anything to your solutions...  I was asked to address an audience
which is made up predominantly of the general public.  From my experience
they want to know that the processes involved in cryonics are "nice and
comforting".  It is easy therefore to take these comments out of context
if one applies a scientific slant to them. <<

In short, Mr. Albin simply misspoke, rather the way President Gerald Ford
misspoke during a presidential debate during the 1980's when he claimed
that East Europe was not dominated by the Soviet Union.  Of course, it
was, and he knew it, and his administration knew it, and even as he was
saying it, a comprehensive and extensively well-thought-out policy was in
place actively dealing with Eastern Europe.  Ford simply made, to use
Barry Albin's words, 'a slip'.  Which of us has not?  We all have, we all
will, and -- if we are adults -- we will understand and move on to more
substantive things.

Needless to say, keeping Mr. Albin's slip perpetually online would only
serve to misinform others.  I've written the site asking that it be
removed.

Of course, when anyone makes a slip publicly nowadays, there are always a
few people out there who take the opportunity to indulge in fairly
infantile ridicule.  And sure enough:  as a flock of courageously
anonymous email has already gone out here and there on the net.  Miss
Wells' question is certainly not in that category:  it is quite
understandable and appropriate.  And the answer to it is simple:  no,
there are no bizarre 'rose water' or 'cosmetic' additives to CI
solutions.  There is no reason to use rose water, CI doesn't use it, and
Barry Albin doesn't use it on CI patients.  All of which is, after all,
kind of obvious.  He simply made a 'slip', as he says, and immediately
expressed his regrets for making it.  That's all there is to the story. 


Coming rather generously to CI's aid on this topic, Mr. Charles Platt
wrote:
 
>> Indeed, one of the great advantages of CI over other cryonics
organizations is that its protocols are reviewed by independent labs.<<

Yes, that is indeed one of the great advantages of CI over other cryonics
organizations.  Thank you for pointing it out to readers, Charles.  No
other cryonics organization is having its protocols reviewed by
independent labs, nor is any other organization making the results
public.  Nor, for that matter, has any other organization posted the
composition of its solutions, as CI has.  See http://www.cryonics.org. 
(And for information on the qualifications on funeral directors as well.)
 Is rose water - ie distilled water - a component of any currently
utilized vitro-goop?  Beats me.  No one's telling us what's in it. 
Thanks again to Charles for bringing this heartening distinction to the
readership's attention.

> > No doubt the utility of rose water has been fully investigated and
sanctioned by the Canadians.<<

Not in connection with CI or CI solutions.  As the CI page indicates, CI
does not use rose water.  Obviously.  Just a simple misstatement on Mr.
Albin's part.  Again, thanks to Charles for pointing out the basic
absurdity of the charge.

>> I can't resist forwarding the following, which was sent to me by
someone who prefers not to post to CryoNet personally. To those who
object to anonymous or pseudonymous posts--just blame it on me.<<

Dear me, why in the world would anyone objecting to anonymous or
pseudonymous postings blame Charles Platt?  I much prefer to read his own
admirable prose; for example, Message #17412,  in which, regarding the
charge that Alcor President Jerry Lemler went in search of Noah's Ark,
Charles wrote the following words of genuine wisdom:

>> As I understand it. Dr. Lemler went in search of a legend. He might
just as well have gone to Egypt looking at pyramids. Whatever. Personally
I have no interest in what he does in his spare time. All I care about is
what he does at Alcor. Thus far, he has shown exemplary use of his
knowledge and experience, gained from his professional activities in an
emergency room and as a psychiatrist," adding "If Jerry Lemler wants to
spend his next vacation looking for the Holy Grail, that's fine by
me--just so long as he keeps  achieving good results in cryopreservations
at Alcor.<<

Isn't that very well put, everyone?  Quite right.  If a person is
qualified and competent, as I have no doubt Jerry Lemler is, silly
attacks are really not called for.  I, personally, do not think that
there is anything wrong with going on an archeological dig, and indeed I
compliment Dr. Lemler on his sense of curiosity and adventure.   Which is
why neither I, nor any other CI member, commented on the issue.  Yet, 
when a CI agent makes an obviously incorrect slip of the tongue,
anonymous emails careen across the web, and even so fair-minded and just
a critic as Charles feels obliged to bring these mystery tidbits to
public attention.  How odd.  We rightly respect expertise and brush away
criticisms and counsel exclusive focus on knowledge and experience in one
case; we pop anomymous posts around and then make them public to give the
knife just that little extra twist in the other.  Ah well -- that's what
Cryonet the jolly place that it is, I suppose.  As Charles said in the
same post, "One problem with the Web is that any idiot can dig up
something embarrassing about anyone."  Guess so.

David Pascal


P.S.  It occurred to me that the CI web site, being rather large, might
be difficult to navigate for information on funeral directors.  I could
post the whole thing anonymously, of course, but instead I thought I'd
cut and paste a small section of it on the qualifications of funeral
directors.  The conditions are not exactly similar for British directors,
of course, but a general equivalence holds for Western nations.  I do
think it gives some sense of the technical competence and legal oversight
funeral directors have.  Quote: 

"Are they [funeral directors] qualified? It's been said that funeral
directors are not as competent to provide adequate treatment as people
instructed in the procedure (which is a strange charge, since it is
precisely instruction in the procedure that CI provides funeral
directors.) 

"But look at the facts. The training of a  certified cryotransport
technician  -- certified by a private, unregulated organization
unauthorized by the state or any regulatory bodies -- may take place in
the course of two or three days. How does a funeral director compare? The
web site of the American Board of Funeral Service Education, an agency
recognized by the United States commissioner of Education, and which
accredits mortuary colleges and programs, states that to qualify as a
funeral director, most states require a combination of postsecondary
education (at minimum an Associate Degree in Funeral Service Education),
passage of the National Board Examination, and service as an apprentice
for one or two years. A Funeral Service Education curriculum generally
can require at least 60 semester (90 quarter) hours of academic course
work. Most programs also require the successful completion of practicum
time within a funeral home. 

"As the ABFSE notes, "The curriculum in Funeral Service is comprised of
the following courses: Sciences, including micro-biology, pathology,
chemistry, anatomy, embalming and restorative art; Business, including
small business management, funeral home management and computer skills;
Social Sciences, including history and sociology of funeral service,
psychology of grief and bereavement counseling; Law and Ethics, including
business law, funeral service law and funeral service ethics." Similarly,
the baccalaureate degree program in Mortuary Science and Funeral Service
offered at one public university in Illinois includes course work to
prepare the student for the National Board Examination and requirements
for licensure within the profession, and is accredited by the American
Board of Funeral Service Education and meets licensing requirements of
the Illinois Department of Professional Regulations. 

"Course work includes laboratory work and studies in, to quote from the
online curriculum, "the anatomy of the circulatory system, the autopsied
case, the cavity embalming, the contents of the thoracic and abdominal
cavities, and various embalming treatments," as well as "sanitation,
embalming agents, instruments, and methods of embalming," mortuary
anatomy studies focusing on "the structure and function of the human body
as a whole including: general organization, structural organization,
tissues, skeletal system, nervous system, circulatory system, glands,
respiratory system, digestive system, genitourinary system, muscle,
integument, and special senses," enbalming chemistry studies covering
"the chemistry of the body, sanitation, toxicology, chemical changes in
deceased human remains, disinfection, and embalming fluids," plus
"microbiology: morphology, structure, physiology, populations of
microbial organisms, microbial destruction, immunology, and pathogenic
agents," pathology studies involving "the cause, course and effects of
diseases upon the human body with stress on ways in which tissue changes
affect the embalming process," not to mention special studies in
"techniques and procedures used for embalming unique cases such as
floaters, burn victims, car accident victims and other traumatic faces of
death." Further information on training criteria for funeral directors is
available via the Healthweb link to the University of Minnesota
Bio-Medical Library s extensive section Mortuary Science. 

"The notion, therefore, that funeral directors are by definition inferior
to individuals who may have no medical qualifications and whose private
non-state-regulated training may consist of two or three days of
instruction, is simply ridiculous. It may be true that a fully qualified
medical doctor performing the procedure may have more general expertise;
but even there we should recall that cryonic suspension is not a part of
conventional medical training, and that no doctor is instructed in it at
any medical university or hospital. They, like funeral directors, are
practiced in related techniques only, and have to learn the new procedure
entirely afresh. But even a fully qualified medical doctor does not do
every few days what a funeral director does every few days: perform on
human bodies a procedure that involves entirely removing the blood and
replacing it with a preservative solution. Even in such cases the
relative level of experience and experience-related expertise favors the
funeral director. 

"Funeral directors can often do the job of initial preparation more
quickly, more expertly, more safely, at far less expense, and with much
less hassle, than traveling teams. So why not go with what works?"

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