X-Message-Number: 17650
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Transport by sea
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:07:01 +0100

As a result of the chaos and reduced safety and reliability in civil
aviation, the question of the wisdom of non-US people relying on air
transport for cryonics as opposed to starting their own storage facilities
has arisen. Robert Ettinger pointed out:

> Quick note--Getting patients to the U.S. from Europe is not necessarily
> dependent on air travel. Seaways remain a possibility.
>
> Robert Ettinger

Has this ever been considered and figures worked out for a cost and risk
comparison of surface transport to air?

Handling costs with shipping are likely to be just as high if not more so
than with aircraft, especially if the port of destination is distant from
the recipient's address and a further extended period of road transport is
required the other end.

Even though ships can get damaged in collisions etc, the effect is often
non-catastrophic unlike aircraft. But because aircraft are intuitively more
dangerous, more safety precautions are taken, but as they say with free fall
parachuting, if first you don't succeed, you don't get another chance to try
again!

The ECSG headquarters in Sussex seem reasonably close to ports such as
Newhaven and Dover, but are there ever shipping movements to the USA from
these places, and more specifically shipping movements up the St Lawrence
river to dock in the lakes near CI's facility? If anywhere, the Port of
London ought to have such shipments, and even though not as convenient and
as safe as Newhaven far as road transport is concerned, it is no less so
than London Heathrow airport.

It seems that very little except bulk cargoes (eg oil) go by sea these days.
Maybe it would be possible to discover if there is (for example) regular
shipments of china clay from St Austell to Detroit and if it is possible for
other freight, for example a cryopreserved body, to be booked. My guess is
that the chance of a convenient regular cargo shipping is low, and when one
compounds the sailors' superstitions about carrying dead bodies, the chances
of getting agreement even on the basis that it is unlikely ever to be taken
up, is also extremely low. But this is a matter of some importance to the
cryonics movement worldwide, so maybe there is someone reading these lists
who works in the shipping industry who could make some few tentative
enquiries so as at least point the way beyond mere speculation.

Another option that someone may suggest is to charter a smaller ship or even
a yacht to go between the nearest convenient ports. But I would expect this
to fail both on cost and risk as compared to large cargo freighters.

--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:      http://www.deRivaz.com
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors'
report, an autobio and various other projects:
http://www.geocities.com/longevityrpt
http://www.autopsychoice.com - http://www.cryonics-europe.org -
http://www.porthtowan.com

----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>
Sent: 23 September 2001 01:06
Subject: Re: [Cryonics Europe] Transport vs UK storage


> Quick note--Getting patients to the U.S. from Europe is not necessarily
> dependent on air travel. Seaways remain a possibility.
>
> Robert Ettinger
>
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