X-Message-Number: 18173
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:23:56 -0800
From: Dave Shipman <>
Subject: Re: New questions/pigs and Cayce

Friends,

	I was hoping someone better qualified than me might answer Carole's 
questions (#18162), but since no one responded in the last blast, I'll give 
it a shot.

Q: It seems, to me, that many laboratory test could be performed on a pig
(as opposed to a monkey)that would, in turn, help to answer many questions
relating to the human body and its ability to reanimate. ...

A: I think these kinds of studies are very important and can teach us a 
lot. I've heard Mike Darwin say that sheep may be a better animal to use 
since their brains are more similar to human brains than are those of other 
animals. In any case, we can learn a lot from doing the kind of experiments 
you are discussing to determine how well our current procedures are working 
and how they can be improved. The cryonics organizations have pursued and 
are continuing investigations along these lines. The main problem of course 
is money. Setting up a lab, hiring qualified people, purchasing or renting 
expensive analysis equipment (such as electron microscopes), getting proper 
approvals for animal experimentation, etc., is all very costly. As a 
consequence, not nearly as much of this kind of work is being done as most 
of us would like.

Q: Not knowing whether or not pigs have a "personality," or soul, per se,
or if, in fact, they have any iota of thoughtful sensibilities whatsoever, 
...

A: Well anybody who is close to pigs or other farm animals, or anyone with 
a pet, will tell you that animals have personalities, and even thoughts and 
consciousness. This also seems to be the dominant view of the scientific 
community these days.

Q: But since the human brain responds to its own neurotransmitters, is
it reasonable to assume that the pig's does also, and could not
nanotechnology somehow, eventually, capture some of the impulses before or
when they jump the synaptic cleft? And, if captured, could they not then
lead to some comprehension of how the memory bank collects its
data--thereby allowing science to store it for continued use at a later 
date?

A: There is a whole legion of neuroscientists pursuing exactly the 
questions of how the brain stores memories and performs its other 
functions. The tools now available allow them to "see" activity in the 
brain when different tasks are being performed. These imaging systems will 
only get better and better. Eventually, with nanotechnology or some other 
means, we will be able to observe the level of neurons and synapses. You 
are right, at that point we will be able to capture the contents of 
individual brains -- memories, skills, personality, the works. It may be 
possible then to somehow transfer these contents into another substrate, 
either biological or artificial. People who advocate this process call it 
"uploading". But not everyone believes this will be possible or desirable. 
In any case, most of us imagine that when brain function is restored after 
cryonic suspension it will involve repairing and restarting your current 
brain. So this really isn't an issue directly related to cryonics. But many 
cryonicists do think about these sorts of possibilities as being an 
exciting part of the future world we hope to be a part of.

Q: Regarding the "memory" or "soul" of the suspended patient, it seems to
me that Edgar Cayce's theory of "reincarnation" might play a vital role ...

A: Some cryonicists do believe in the soul and reincarnation. I myself do 
not because the scientific evidence for reincarnation seems very weak and 
it appears that every aspect of what might be called the soul can be 
explained in strictly neurological terms. But, it really doesn't matter for 
cryonics whether there actually is a soul or what happens to it after you 
die. The reason is that when you are in cryonic suspension, YOU ARE NOT 
DEAD! Of course, you will have been declared legally dead and the doctors 
will have given up on trying to save you. But your biological structures, 
including your neurological structures, are still intact. And the 
assumption is that you will be restored to health in some future time after 
medical science has advanced to the point that it is capable of repairing 
whatever damage has taken place. Maybe the best way to think of it is that 
cryonic suspension is like being in a coma. People have been revived after 
as long as twenty years in a coma. Where was their soul during that time? I 
don't know what people would say, maybe it stayed with the body, but it 
doesn't seem like there was any possibility of its being reincarnated 
during that period. People have even been without heartbeat or breathing 
for long periods of time and still recovered. There was recently a 
newspaper story of a Scandinavian teenager who fell into freezing water and 
was trapped beneath the ice. By the time she was pulled out, she had had no 
breathing or heartbeat for six hours [At least that's how long I remember, 
does anyone on cryonet have a good reference for this story?]. She was 
warmed up, recovered fully, and now leads a completely normal life. Where 
was her soul during the period she was "clinically dead"? Well, of course, 
the answer is that she was never *really* dead, it was just that her 
breathing and heart had stopped. The same is true for cryonic suspension. 
You are not *really* dead at all, and if all goes well, you will wake up in 
due time in a truly fascinating and wonderful future.

	-- Dave Shipman

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=18173