X-Message-Number: 1835 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 93 01:37:11 -0600 From: (Steve Jackson) Subject: Re: Cults, Ex-Members, and so on Ms. Wells says, in an earnest and fuzzy post, that if Alcor drops members because of anything they say or do, Alcor is no different from a cult, and the First Amendment rights of its members are threatened. To my surprise, Mike Darwin and Brian Wowk - whose comments usually seem well- thought-out - immediately agree. I'm sorry, but this is nonsense. Emotionally loaded terms like "cults" and "Constitutional rights" are being thrown around here, inaccurately and in a way that creates heat rather than light. First: The Constitution, and in particular the First Amendment, guarantees that the *government* cannot prevent you from speaking, or punish you for speaking, or discriminate against you for what you say. It does *not* say that an individual or corporation cannot discriminate based on your opinions or statements. Most corporations *are* prohibited from discriminating based on race, color, sex, religion and a couple of other grounds. but that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. (This is a common misconception, especially on the Net, whose users are constantly exercising their freedom of speech and therefore take it seriously. But in order to take it seriously you have to understand it. Some people say "Well, freedom of speech OUGHT to apply to corporations," as though they had just made an important moral point instead of revealing that they didn't know what they were talking about *and didn't want to learn.* I hope we don't have any of that here.) Second: cults. My Webster's has four definitions of CULT: - (1) formal religious veneration, see WORSHIP. (2) a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also, its body of adherents. (3) a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator. (4) great and esp. faddish devotion; also, its object or adherents. Now, one doesn't have to stretch (3) much to fit Alcor squarely in it, but that's not the point. The point is that nowhere in this definition does it say anything about exclusive membership. And if you say "Well, what *I* mean by a cult is that the leaders can throw you out," then you're simply arguing your conclusions. Well, what kind of group CAN drop a member for an offense against the groups? Going to my battered old "Robert's Rules," I find that p. 449 says: "If there is an article on discipline in the bylaws, it may specify a number of offenses outside meetings for which penalties listed at the top of page 539 can be imposed on a member of the organization. Frequently such an article provides for their imposition on any member found guilty of conduct described, for example, as "tending to injure the good name of the organization, disturb its well-being, or hamper its work." In any society, behavior of this nature is a serious offense properly subject to disciplinary action, whether the bylaws make mention of it or not." At the top of page 539 are listed punishments: " . . . reprimand, fine (if authorized in the bylaws,) suspension, or expulsion." So the English language's final authority on the organization of associations in general holds that it is not just allowable, but proper and appropriate, for any association to eject members who interfere with the purpose or good name of that association. Now I'll leave off citing authority and offer my own opinion. If the directors of Alcor ever fail to be wholly careful and circumspect in their use of this power, the members will have every reason to replace them, or to leave en masse and start another organization. And irritating the directors, one by one or wholesale, is not an offense against the association. Neither is intelligent criticism of policy. Come to think of it, neither is any other criticism of policy :-) BUT . . . the directors MUST have the authority to evict a loon or loose cannon who somehow demonstrates that he is an actual danger to Alcor's work, Alcor's patients, or Alcor's image. Arguing otherwise has to proceed from either a lack of data or a special agenda, because it sure doesn't proceed from the facts. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1835