X-Message-Number: 1844.1 From: R. Ettinger Subject: Further Thoughts on Storage Near -136 C Cryonics Institute 24443 Roanoke, Oak Park, MI 48237 (313) 548-9549 (313) 547-2316 Feb. 21, 1993 To: CI Directors and a Few Individuals of Other Organizations Subject: Further Thoughts on Storage Near -136 C So far I have had only a few telephoned expressions of interest in this, and no technical comments. Andy Zawacki and I continue to discuss it. In the previous note I neglected to point out that Alcor and Trans Time could probably store heads or brains near -136 C in their MVE-type units, using my suggestions of Feb. 12. One or both of them could probably experiment with this easily enough at no great expense. If CI were to decide to offer such service, we could probably also offer head-only storage in an HSSV-1 type cylindrical unit at only a moderate increase over our basic price. We will probably go ahead and experiment with this as soon as time allows. The HSSV-1 is available now, since we have completed the transport unit, the RSSSVT. There are also some other designs that appear feasible, using liquid nitrogen, without pontoons or equivalent. For example, perhaps one could use a central reservoir of liquid nitrogen, surrounded laterally by insulation; outside of this are vertical compartments for patients; the patients in each compartment are surrounded by thermally conducting material to tend to equalize temperatures at all points around the patient; each compartment has insulation around it, and the whole patient region is surrounded by insulation; by making the thickness or thermal resistance in the reservoir side less than the outside, it may be possible to attain the desired temperature, in the vicinity of -136 C, in the patient compartments. If this would work, it might be better than the pontoon approach -- first, because no pontoons or flotation would be needed; second, because less of the heat sink might be wasted, although I don't have firm numbers on this; and third, because it lends itself to large systems.... I haven't given this much thought yet, and it may well prove impractical for various reasons, but so far I don't see any obvious fundamental flaw. The sketch below is for a cylindrical configuration, which is not the only one possible. I understand that some Alcor people believe commercially available mechanical refrigerators might be good enough for neuro storage, and with redesign for whole body -- but I haven't seen enough details or numbers to form an opinion. Bob Ettinger <<< Here is my square, ASCII rendition of Ettinger's drawing of a cylindrical configuration. - KQB >>> ---------------------------------------- | insulation | | -------------------------- | | i | patients | i | | n | p -------------- p | n | | s | a | insulation | a | s | | u | t | -------- | t | u | | l | i | | liquid | | i | l | | a | e | -------- | e | a | | t | n | insulation | n | t | | i | t -------------- t | i | | o | s patients s | o | | n | | n | | -------------------------- | | insulation | ---------------------------------------- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1844.1