X-Message-Number: 18489
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 08:36:15 -0500
From: "Raphael T. Haftka" <>
Subject: memories and survival

Robert Ettinger wrote:

>Does Thomas think his infant self failed to survive? After all, he retains no
>memories, or at least none he can bring to consciousness, from his first year
>of life. Yet here he is, and if he looks at his baby pictures no doubt he
>thinks of that as himself.

This is putting the question to the wrong person. When I contemplate the 
person that may be revived after cryonics suspension the question is not 
whether he will think that we are the same person but whether I now think 
that we will be the same person. If that future person does not have any of 
my present memories, it is very difficult for me to think of him as being 
the same person.

I remember watching the movie Heaven Can Wait, where Warren Beattie is 
returned to life from heaven but without any memories of his previous life. 
I felt at the time that this was a sham revival, and I still do think so 

What constitutes survival is a value judgement rather than an objective 
question, and I must fall in the group that does not consider survival 
without memories to be much better than being replaced by a biological clone.

Rafi Haftka

Tel:    Home (352-466-4432
         Work (352)-392-9595
         Fax: (352)-392-7303     

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