X-Message-Number: 18503 Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:47:19 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: Memories and Survival Hello all, This topic is somewhat disturbing for me because I often feel that I am walking at the edge of the identity abyss. Obviously, the central goal of cryonics is the preservation of the self. Indeed, many on this board are not so much life-extensionists as they are self-extensionists. It follows that a stark and ongoing examination of the nature of self is part and parcel of being so self-absorbed (not a pejorative). Q: How important are memories to identity? Prof. Ettinger is correct in reminding us that many of our memories are flawed. They were often flawed in the making as well as flawed in subsequent reconstructions. The term limited fidelity is very appropriate. Ettinger also wrote: Further, suppose you were somehow to discover that your memories are false--that they were recently implanted. You would be upset, but how would it basically matter? Our actual histories and memories are just cosmic accidents anyway--why does it matter if they are true or false, so long as they are healthy enough to allow an ongoing healthy life? This reminded me of the fascinating movie, Dark City , where aliens were conducting a massive experiment on a city full of humans, manipulating and mixing memories between them. Every day, each person awoke with a new set of memories, a new personality, a new environmental setting. And the aliens watched to see their reaction (I won t tell you anymore but I liked it). Yes, everyone s life was ongoing, functional and healthy enough. Essentially, thousands were murdered every night and replaced with new individuals. And what if the aliens had simply decided they were finished one day and left the city with its current population to continue on? Would it have really mattered in any substantial way that left on Tuesday instead of Wednesday or Saturday? The analogy between Dark City and reality for me is that each human brain is in a constant state of physical neuronal change. You really aren t the same person you were last night, even if the difference is small. Can we say that "You" are constantly being killed by this natural process and likewise constantly replaced with a new "You" that's only a close approximation? Aren't the differences between (1) being a citizen of Dark City, (2) having false memories implanted into your mind by a therapist, and (3) simply waking up this morning ... simply a matter of degree? See what I mean about the abyss? Also, in my view, it is the processing of the information making up the memory that is more closely associated with the self rather than the memory itself. A memory is simply information. It may have affective tags associated with it, but that s still just information for what the brain is supposed to do with the information. And information can be stored in a number of ways, in the brain, on paper, on a CD, etc. Processing that information from the unique perspective of your personality, habits, dispositions, etc is the self in action. Memories are also sort of like possessions; you ve lost some over the years, you have a collection now, and you ll be getting some new ones sometime soon. Sorry for the long post. I have more to say but will do so in a future post. Oh just one more thing, Rafi Haftka wrote: I remember watching the movie Heaven Can Wait, where Warren Beattie is returned to life from heaven but without any memories of his previous life. I felt at the time that this was a sham revival, and I still do think so today. Uh, I seem to recall quite vividly that Beatty was quite aware of his previous life as a star quarterback and health freak. It s why he looked up his previous coach. It s why his behaviors seemed so outrageous to those close to the person s body he inhabited. Don t you remember? Scott Badger Vita Pertua __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=18503