X-Message-Number: 18590
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:35:05 -0800
From: "John Grigg" <>
Subject: "Drexlerian" as an epithet

The challenges facing Drexlerian nanotech continue to be discussed.

best wishes,

John  


"Drexlerian" as an epithet, was Re: Saul Kent's powerful new cryonics 
organization
From: Michael M. Butler ()
Date: Thu Feb 14 2002 - 13:51:54 MST 


"Robert J. Bradbury" wrote: 
> > 

> > As far as Wolfe is concerned, any technology based on the "Drexlerian vision
of 

> > nanotech"--that is, the self-replicating assembler--should be put in its 
place. 
> 
> Src: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-833739.html 
> 
> We are not "over the hump" yet by any stretch of the imagination. 



It seems that one must deal with the notion that self-replicating general 
purpose assemblers 

is Drexler's sole contribution/albatross; probably by tacitly ignoring it when 
dealing with those 

with short-term parallel goals. Calculating the consequent risks & goal drifts 
requires craft. 
Argue, or win the war? 


This sometimes seems daunting. 

I try to remember Robert Goddard's history--and to be mindful of the Peenemunde 
story arc. 


-- 

butler a t comp - lib . o r g    Wm. Burroughs said it best: "After a shooting 
spree,

I am not here to have an argument.        they always want to take the guns away
I am here as part of a civilization.        from the people who didn't do it."


Re: "Drexlerian" as an epithet, was Re: Saul Kent's powerful new cryonics 
organization
From: Robert J. Bradbury ()
Date: Fri Feb 15 2002 - 07:33:58 MST 


Michael Butler wrote: 
> It seems that one must deal with the notion that self-replicating general 
> purpose assemblers is Drexler's sole contribution/albatross; 


I don't consider that to be the case. If one reads Nanosystems 
and Eric's other papers carefully there are a huge number of 
other things discussed. A few would include -- the problems 
of constructing molecules with strained bonds, the damage UV 
radiation causes to molecules, the rather fantastic number 
of structures that can be constructed within a cube measuring 
100 atoms per side, the fact that heat removal is the *real* 
problem for high computation densities, the fact that one has 
to move from non-reversible to reversible computational 
architectures, the fact that there is a clear chemical/biotechnology 
based path to assemblers by designing molecular parts of increasing 
stiffness, etc. 


The fact that SRAs can exist is obvious to anyone who understands 
biology. Eric's extension of this to general purpose assemblers 
is a significant contribution but I wouldn't consider it *that* 
significant. Its only significant from the perspective that 
he pointed out the risks that such devices could pose and that 
gets everyone who isn't aware of the existing "green goo" situation 
all upset. 


> probably by tacitly ignoring it when dealing with those with 
> short-term parallel goals. 


You don't have to ignore it at all. You simply point out there 
are *very* effective ways of dealing with the risks, e.g. heat and 
radiation. Those are the same methods that have been used to deal with 
the green goo for ages. It is unfortunate that people generally lack 
the knowledge to paint a complete picture -- that you can have 
assemblers that are non-self-replicating that can rely on 
broadcast architectures and that the people who promote the 
dangers of SRGPA do not in the same breath acknowledge we are 
effectively already in that situation *and* there are defenses that 
can be employed should we choose to do so. 


> Calculating the consequent risks & goal drifts requires craft. 
> Argue, or win the war? 


Educate, avoid annoying people as best you can and prepare to 
defend oneself. 


Robert 






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