X-Message-Number: 18642 From: Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 11:42:33 EST Subject: rabbit kidneys, "vitrification" In my post two days ago, I said, among other and more important things, that there has not yet, to my knowledge, despite many years of effort, been success in vitrifying a rabbit kidney and demonstrating viability. One of the reasons for saying this was that, in "News from Twenty-First Century Medicine" in issue no. 1 of Charles Platt's Alcor Forum, we read: "Since rabbit-kidney experiments at 21st had seemed to confirm the unique properties of its vitrification technology [whose solution was licensed to Alcor], some observers were puzzled to learn in July that the company temporarily suspended some of its low-temperature organ preservation work. "We had some mechanical problems delivering the correct amount of CPAs (cryoprotective agents) to some areas of the kidneys," according to J. Dean Barry, CEO of 21st." There were similar reports elsewhere, and to my knowedge no claim by 21 CM or anyone else that rabbit kidneys have been vitrified with demonstrated viability. If anyone can cite such a claim, I'd like to see it, and so would many others. (There have been many claims of partial successes, and of indications of progress, but that is not the same thing. There have also been many partial successes and indications of progress with freezing, and in fact reports of complete success in freezing a few small mammalian organs such as the rat parathyroid. More importantly, Dr. Yuri Pichugin and colleagues demonstrated coordinated electrical activity in networks of neurons in pieces of rabbit brains that had been perfused with glycerol, frozen in liquid nitrogen, and then rewarmed.) As to using quotation marks around "vitrification," yes, my purpose is to emphasize the fact that it is not currently available anywhere for any amount of money. It is simply a fact, to the best of my knowledge, that no mammalian organ--let alone a human or dog brain--has been demonstrably vitrified. In fact, I don't even know of any ATTEMPT at evaluation, by any criterion, of an animal brain treated by the current Alcor procedure and then rewarmed. Once more, the main TDIS people, who are intimately acquainted both with the Alcor procedure and the 21 CM work, have themselves very recently said, repeatedly, that Alcor does not deliver what they regard as acceptable vitrification; and furthermore, that they themselves only hope, within the next year or so, at heavy additional expense, to develop a satisfactory vitrification procedure and demonstrate its effectiveness. As to whether, or to what degree, the current Alcor procedure improves the patient's chances, this is currently just guesswork. First, there have been no evaluations of the Alcor procedure, so even the condition of the patients is guesswork. Second, the Alcor people themselves have said that their current procedure requires very quick access to the patient, ruling out foreign patients in that respect at the present time. Third, it is difficult to guess where the line may be--if there is a line--between what kinds of damage will and will not be eventually reversible. It remains possible, and some well qualified people believe, that a mature nanotechnology will be both necessary and sufficient for revival of patients cryopreserved by any current method. The basic common-sense guidelines are clear enough: 1. If you value continued or renewed life enough, you will make cryopreservation arrangements of some kind with no unnecessay delay. It's not a huge expense for most people, and you can always change your mind--but you can't change your mind if you die without arrangements. 2. If you think one type of procedure is superior, by however little, you will choose that, if you can afford it and if there are no other considerations. (In practice, there are many other considerations.) Getting back to the main point of my previous post, CI will work with TDIS and Alcor and ACS and anyone/everyone else to improve everyone's chances and to offer the widest possible range of options to CI members. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=18642