X-Message-Number: 18684
From: "George Smith" <>
References: <>
Subject: What about the survivors?
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:39:27 -0800

Re: CryoNet #18664 Martinots face execution in France

The arguments I have read so far advocating the burial or cremation seems to
ignore the possibility that the surviving members of the family might WANT
the suspension to go forward.

In my own family the coming third generation of CI members will be educated
and hold the same ethical perspective in regard to those of us who might be
suspended.  Any member of my MY family already views cremation or burial of
any of us as murder by default (in the same way someone would block the way
of an ambulance rushing a heart attack victim to the hospital).

Neither the existence of God nor the beliefs of others in regard to the
probability of successful reanimation (ESPECIALLY in this ignorant era) have
anything to do with it.  The SURVIVORS wish it as the truly living members
of my family.

Again, all the arguments I have read so far attempt to denigrate the wishes
of the deceased and seem to ignore completely the potential wishes of the
living family members.

If I am wrong, and in this one case (the Martinots) THEIR family members DO
wish cremation or burial then that truly is unfortunate, to put it mildly.

In my own case I really should ask what the current situation is in regard
to declaring cryonic suspension as a RELIGIOUS tenet of "faith".  There was
a document floating around to that effect a few years ago based out of
California as I recall.  In the case of my own family this would be an
entirely appropriate and accurate statement.

(For those of you who have suddenly become upset over my use of the "R"
word, all I can say is I certainly do hope you have at least succeeded in
convincing all of YOUR family members to become cryonics members so that
there will at least be 100% support for your continued suspension.  For me,
you can stuff your pretensions and get on to the purpose of words -
survival!).

In any case, the angle which I have not read on this issue is what do the
surviving family members want?  Maybe if YOU go into the "soft ice" the
state will want to obviate YOUR wishes, but what about those in your family
who are still breathing and paying their taxes?

Families can carry on traditions for generations, even centuries.  What we
do with the remains of our ancestors is just such a tradition.  American
Indians regularly raise hell over archeologists who dig up the bones of
their ancestors to put in museums and seem to be getting those bones
replaced these days.  Admittedly this is in the United States and not
France, but even in France I suspect that a strong family tradition can
carry weight against the dictates of "the state".

And as far as traditions go I think of the mummification of ancestors in
Egypt and South America.  Burials and cremations may have a longer and more
popular role in history but mummification comes in a close second.

The key here, I suspect, is to understand what Mel Brooks portrayed so
excellently in his film "Blazing Saddles" when he puffed on his cigar in the
midst of a meeting with his political cronies and stated, "Gentlemen,
Gentlemen!  We have to protect our phony baloney jobs!"

At least in the US, religion carries a heavy weight with the politicians.
So does anyone have the inside scoop on the "cryonics is my religion"
declaration anymore?

"Gimme that old time religion.
It was good enough for Old King Tut
And it's good enough for me!"

With only half my tongue in my cheek,

George Smith
CI member

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